I think associating with a group that believes in the creation of an ethnostate should remain legal
So long as the group explicitly says they do not condone violence and they want to achieve their goals through purely peaceful means. If they want to deport everyone who “isn’t them” to establish an ethnostate, that’s one thing. But killing everyone who isn’t them to create an ethnostate is very different and crosses the line.
The same would go for dismantling capitalism. Winning elections and passing laws to achieve that is very different from a violent overthrow of the government.
Why the fuck would wanting an ethnostate magically become okay simply by wanting it done through peaceful means?
The abortion bans were imposed through “peaceful means”.
Peaceful does not mean good.
Also countries can and do ban hate groups while allowing other speech. It is possible to have your cake and eat it too. It is possible to define something by observation alone.
Even if the group calls for violence, it should be legal to be a part of that group. If I am subscribed to a YouTuber who calls for violence on people, and those subscribers commit violence upon those people, and I am sitting at home eating Cheetos, it is not justice for me to be charged for being part of that group.
The caller of violence should be charged, the co-conspirators, inciters, and the actors – but not me, because I was eating Cheetos on my couch.
So long as the group explicitly says they do not condone violence and they want to achieve their goals through purely peaceful means.
No, this is still a problem. The Long Shadow podcast did a great job of explaining how groups like the KKK and The Order have decentralized. Everyone knows that their message is a call to action to be taken on by individuals who they can then publicly denounce to say not like that. But they want it exactly like that. People like Timmy McVeinycock understand this.
Mmm, fair enough. I guess this is a strain of enlightened centrism thinking. Maybe the best standard is the same for porn – you know it when you see it. And when your see it, you don’t buy any bullshit. You throw the book at them.
So long as the group explicitly says they do not condone violence and they want to achieve their goals through purely peaceful means. If they want to deport everyone who “isn’t them” to establish an ethnostate, that’s one thing. But killing everyone who isn’t them to create an ethnostate is very different and crosses the line.
The same would go for dismantling capitalism. Winning elections and passing laws to achieve that is very different from a violent overthrow of the government.
Why the fuck would wanting an ethnostate magically become okay simply by wanting it done through peaceful means?
The abortion bans were imposed through “peaceful means”.
Peaceful does not mean good.
Also countries can and do ban hate groups while allowing other speech. It is possible to have your cake and eat it too. It is possible to define something by observation alone.
I never said it was good. Just that if we’re going to be cautious and not outright ban it, then we will need to draw the line at violence.
Even if the group calls for violence, it should be legal to be a part of that group. If I am subscribed to a YouTuber who calls for violence on people, and those subscribers commit violence upon those people, and I am sitting at home eating Cheetos, it is not justice for me to be charged for being part of that group.
The caller of violence should be charged, the co-conspirators, inciters, and the actors – but not me, because I was eating Cheetos on my couch.
No, calling for violence is generally accepted to be unprotected speech.
As it should be
No, this is still a problem. The Long Shadow podcast did a great job of explaining how groups like the KKK and The Order have decentralized. Everyone knows that their message is a call to action to be taken on by individuals who they can then publicly denounce to say not like that. But they want it exactly like that. People like Timmy McVeinycock understand this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg https://open.spotify.com/show/70a5obPALvMVMPSzxYelik https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/long-shadow/id1577471264
Mmm, fair enough. I guess this is a strain of enlightened centrism thinking. Maybe the best standard is the same for porn – you know it when you see it. And when your see it, you don’t buy any bullshit. You throw the book at them.