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Not an American, but yikes does this have “Vote with us… Or else!” vibes.
That’s not to say I support Trump, but I personally don’t think this is the way to convince fence-sitters at all.
And it’s crazy how normal Americans think this two party system is. It’s like no matter how bad you think your guy is, you have to vote for them because the other side is worse. They always talk about the Labour Party and the Tories as if they think they’re carbon copies of the Democrats and the Republicans and project all their issues into them. They don’t seem to realise there’s like five or six other parties that get a considerable number of votes and have representation in Parliament.
you are 100% correct, and I’m glad to see you speaking up here as well.
these kind of posts are disgusting pablum and should be discouraged.
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hahaha, sorry were those typos on purpose or did you do some lazy speech to text there?
It’s very funny.
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nice, it’s a perfect statement.
i am a
It’s exactly the kind of thing that feels good to say, but doesn’t convince anyone at all. Which is why Republicans keep winning despite ideas that should be extremely unpopular. They tie themselves to emotions about masculinity and patriotism and paint the other side as a source of disgust and fear. While Democrats look at people who support or don’t seem eager to stop Trump and say angry things at them, which just makes them not want to help Demcorats.
The “I’m voting, are you?” argument featuring nutty alt-right Maga crazies is far better because it says “hey, you can help stop this nutjob.”
But it’s literally how it works in the USA with voting. It shouldn’t, but it DOES.
I mean, yeah? Have you looked around? The or else is getting pretty bad.
Also I want to keep adding it’s not just Trump, he’s just a pawn. This is Republicans, not Trump. If row did anything hopefully it opened up some eyes to realize they have been on message for a long damn time. Dems should take note.
If I was on the fence this kind of menacing push would make me reaffirm myself into not voting Dems. For real.
What kind of shitty way of convince anyone is this?
How else would you propose that the Overton Window shift to the left?
The really bad part is when you see how they react when people point out Kamala moving to the left would guarantee trump loses…
Moderates have been doing this since Bill Clinton 30+ years ago.
They always claim nothing else matters but beating Republicans, and use any excuse to move the party right. When voters complain the politician doesn’t match the party, we get the above.
They’d rather trump win then progressives, so they point a gun at everyone’s head and say it’s our fault if they have to pull the trigger.
Hell, in 08 with Obama they did pull the trigger. PUMA movement had them voting R instead of Obama. It’s just despite controlling the party, they are a statistically insignificant amount of voters.
A few months ago all these people called us trump supporters for making the (still true) statement that Kamala has a better chance than Biden, and they were all saying Kamala would be a terrible candidate and only Biden can win.
They’ll say anything in the moment with no regards to what just came out of their mouths.
Entirely agree. The people responsible for trump getting votes are the people voting for Trump.
Tactical voting is bullshit of the highest order and the undeniable sign of a fucked up political and voting system, not some sort of political astuteness.
If your voting system can’t allow people to express their true choice, you should throw it away. Yes, that means the majority of voting systems around the world are bad and need to be changed. Getting people to recognise that this is even an issue in the first place is a huge battle.
Yes first past the post elections are fucked, but that’s still the system we have and the one you have to operate under. If you refuse to vote against hitler because you don’t like the voting system, you still refuse to vote against hitler.
Only one party has implemented ranked choice while the other has fought against it. That would be a great first start.
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Can confirm, these awful false-equivalences have only further convinced me that liberals will never lift a finger to help anyone.
I’m not speaking from a place of facts, but I think the sentiment is if you don’t purposefully vote for someone within the two-party system that isn’t Trump, your vote will mathematically be a negative towards votes against Trump.
Not voting/third-party vote = one less vote against Trump/more possible votes for Trump
The “or else” is you will be remembered as the Trump supporter that you are. That’s not a threat.
You’re not s Trump supporter if you don’t support Trump
This is the trolley problem. There are people on the track who will die if you don’t pull the lever. You stand and watch them die and declare, “I didn’t put the train on the track. It’s not my fault.”
You forgot some parts. The bystander being asked to pull the lever will enable a genocide by pulling it, and those rich people stuck on the tracks could pull a policy lever and save themselves but they refused to because someone offered them a bribe not to.
The rich people stuck on the track just want to play the vicitm when they also set up the whole scenario in the fist place by doing crazy stuff. So they crybully about it, and pretend to be victims of the scenario that they themselves created. I’d suggest they save themselves and stop doing stupid stuff. If we save them, how will they learn?
The bystander being asked to pull the lever will enable a genocide by pulling it
That statement shows you are a Trump supporter just like the meme claimed. Trump has committed to the extermination of Palestinians and even said he would deny any refugees.
The Trolley problem has 1 person on one track and 5 on the other. There’s a huge difference between Trump and Harris’s statements on Palestine.
Nope, you cannot blame someone for something they didn’t do
I live in California, if I don’t vote it doesn’t support Trump at all, the electoral votes go onto the Democrats if I vote for them, vote for Trump, or write in SpongeBob, it doesn’t fucking matter
If you live in a swing state then your point stands better, but I’m so fucking sick of this authoritarian “idgaf where you are if you didn’t vote exactly how I want you to then I’ll be a real pissy bitch about it” shit because I don’t like to vote in line with authoritarians
There was no retribution in the meme. Only that the person would be remembered for their lack of action.
What would you think of me if I saw your house catch fire and instead of calling the fire department, I watched your pets burn to death?
There was no retribution in the meme
Cute that you want to pretend that “well remember this false thing about you” isn’t an implicit threat
What would you think of me if I saw your house catch fire and instead of calling the fire department, I watched your pets burn to death?
Not a very good hypothetical as you can actually do something there
Its cute how hard youll grasp for a reason to justify the authoritarianism though. Gross, but cute
It’s not false. Through inaction they allowed something bad to happen. You want to have it both ways.
Not a very good hypothetical as you can actually do something there
As if you can’t vote?
Even if you are in solid Blue State, an overwhelming majority against Trump will send a message to the next fascist attempt.
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Yes, I understand the sentiment. But the tone is off. Sounding like fascists or Marxist Leninist should be the last thing anyone should be aiming for.
More people should be aiming to be Marxists, don’t know why you’re trying to draw an equivalence between Marxists and fascists that doesn’t exist. You should read Blackshirts and Reds, Communists and fascists have served entirely different classes, the fascists served the bourgeoisie while the Marxists served the proletariat, and funded anti-colonial and anti-Imperialist movements the world over (including funding the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine).
Abstaining or voting 3rd party to “make Dems listen” doesn’t work. If anyone thinks they can play Mexican Standoff, you can’t because the Dems have an out: the center voter. Every time they lose, they go to the center to find voters.
And remember they need all 3 of presidency, house of representatives, and senate to pass pretty much anything. If they don’t have all 3 they will go to the center to find voters. Some people call this rachet effect, but really they’re looking for voters. Want them to stop ‘racheting’? Then give them consistent and overwhelming victories.
This is exactly why we need ranked choice voting.
Winner takes all essentially demoralizes and alienates voters and drives people who agree with each other to fight because they’re trapped in a broken system.
So instead of fighting the system, it’s easier to just blame other people and alienate more of them against your cause, shooting yourself in the foot with ignorance. It’s kind of disgusting.
Unrelated to the message - that’s a bad use of the meme, doesn’t fit at all.
As non-american I agree you guys should definitely vote Harris, despite Dems being terrible Trump would absolutely be worse on each topic Dems are bad. That being said, rethoric of this post is straight up facist. Using threats of personal consequences for “wrongly” exercising ones right to vote is wild.
Yeah this is pretty sus, reeks of right wing psy ops shit.
It’s just blue maga
I’ve been seeing that term pop up a lot now lately but it’s pretty much universally been extreme left people crying that their views aren’t popular enough to be mainstream.
But I agree, the rhetoric in the op is not what we should want to be
It’s not a threat, dumbass. It’s a warning. There will be personal consequences, but they’ll be perpetrated by the MAGAs. And we will blame you guys.
It sounded like a treat with the very personal “we” and “you”. But calling it fascist is a bit too much. Fascism is a right wing mass movement for when capitalism goes down hill (usually blaming some minority for it), so it should support capitalism in it essence. I didn’t get any of that from this meme.
From wikipedia:
Fascism a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
While it definitely describes Republican party as a whole, I specifically mentioned rethoric as being fascist, as in, one fascists would use. In this case I made a reference to “subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race” part as well, to lesser degree, to “forcible suppression of opposition” as threats can be seen as such. For rethoric to be pro-something it doesn’t need to encapsulate all aspects of said thing, for example you can see pro-leftist rethoric mentioning workplace democracy and not including being against opression of miniorities. “Education should be free” is a leftist rethoric despite not mentioning trans genocide.
It definitely could be a right wing psy op, as someone mentioned. Dems are way too meek to go that far imo.
“Its not fascism unless its from the Faschisa region of Italy, otherwise it’s just sparkling authoritarianism”
I definitely don’t agree with that kind of view, just to clarify.
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citizens cannot be a fascist unless they’re in a position of political power
Absolutely absurd.
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Very braindead take in every sense
Did you just make that up on the spot and kind of just said fuck it I’ll roll with it as the absolute unequivocal truth why not
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Exactly so absolutely in no way are those people all not fascists, which is what you said and people react to
I literally said that the rethoric was fascist, not person. Fascism is an ideology as well as movement, and people regardless of political power they hold can follow a ideology, so even if I wasn’t referring to rethoric it would still be viable to call someone a fascist - not that it should be done on the basis of single shitty meme. If you believe that communism is the best political system there is, then you are a communist. If you give examples and advocate for this system, then you’re most likely using rethoric that is recognizeably communist, as in, it conveys the message favourable for communism. I’ve already outlined why the message coming from the post is fascist in my oryginal comment. Your claim that one requires a degree of political power in order to be identified by the ideology they believe in would be invalid in terms of USA politics even if it was true - since USA citizens have the right to vote for whomever they want (which the OP tried to restrain with the use of threats) they do hold actual political power and influence, regardless how small it is. I’ve already explained in more details how the rethoric itself was fascist in another comment, referring to the definition and all that. Also, dancing around the definition to whitewash the condemned action is really pointless unless you’re trying to intentionally muddy the water. Convincing people to vote for specific candidate with threats of them being ousted for not doing that is directly what both Mussolini and Hitler did. Mussolini used that tactic in parliamentary elections in 1924, and Sturmabteilung did that in 1932, keeping watch by the pooling stations and threatening voters. Those people absolutely were fascists by any modern definition, and used this rethoric to achieve the same result as one that was intended here. If that isn’t enough red flags for you to call this rethoric fascist, then I don’t think there is enough common ground between our positions to engage in reasonable discussion.
I’ll vote Dem, but I am ashamed beyond measure of the Dem party. Despite the public doing all they can to stop Trump, the actual candidates running against Trump are sitting on their asses and refusing to take serious action. This “Blue Wave” is not approval FOR Harris-Walz, but rather DISAPPROVAL for Trump. Dems are ultimately more responsible for fascism in the U.S. than their voters.
All in all, the entire United States Government is at fault. This is just one reason why I want an independent Cascadia.
It’s sadly the same story in the UK the public are sick and tired of the Tory’s bullshit. Unfortunately the Labour Party has never been soo right wing. Normally they they wouldn’t have have stood a chance on such an authoritarian, uninspiring manifesto but here we are. The cynicism of the people in charge of the Labour Party stinks to high heaven. They fucked the party while the left were in charge then purged them when they retook control. I’ll be lucky to still be about by the time the left ever get control again.
Canada is setup to have a Conservative majority after the Liberals utterly ruined everything for 2 and a bit terms. The Liberals are a centre-right party that campaigns as a centre-left party and it has caused a huge rightward-drift.
We’re pretty screwed because somehow people think the solution to unaffordable housing and whole industries being captured by oligarchs is austerity.
The things that gets under my skin the most are: the contempt they have for much of the populace; their habitual dishonesty; holding power is more important than achieving any measurable good; their apparent philosophy seems to be gradually increasing inequality; their toxic attitude to anyone to their left.
Harris will hold any announcement of dropping weapons shipments to israel till the very last day to see if the polls tell her she will get away with supporting the genocide and still winning the election. The more doubts she has, the more she might flip. So might as well hold your vote till the last second and play out this game of chicken.
Fuck right off with that “Dems are just as much at fault”.
It’s the system that sucks, and it’s the Republicans that exploited the system.
It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t problem. Dems can’t win by playing the game by the rules, but if they stoop to the Republicans level, then they are just as fascist.
You gotta see the conundrum, right? Dems take the high road and they lose, dems take the low road and they’re fascist, too.
The only option is to pull out as many stops as possible, while working within the rules to either get moderate conservatives (the ones that hate Trump, at least) to switch to Harris. Which means that the big-tent-party gets bigger by expanding to the right.
So they do stuff like observe that Trump’s whole schtick is “I’m not the incumbent”. That didn’t work well for him in 2020. Getting Biden to step down and throw the entire GOP campaign off kilter was, IMO, brilliant. Yeah, it sucks that there was no real primary…but there’s also the issue of optics when primarying an incumbent president.
And I don’t think the pageantry of a primary would’ve accomplished anything. It would’ve shattered the party even more with infighting while Trump and the GOP leaned back with their popcorn and pulling out sound bites to twist on Fox and OAN to rattle their own base even more. And in the end the Dems would’ve just chosen who they wanted to and half the parties voters will be just as, if not more, pissed, and end up boycotting the election as a result.
And then they get to really punch Trump where it hurts, by saying things like how he’s now the oldest person to ever run for president of the US. You just know that’s gotta burn.
Honestly, Harris/Walz is probably the best they could’ve offered up, not because they are great politicians (although they are), but because this is a battle of appearances and personality, and the two of them have it in spades.
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I don’t understand what is so difficult to grasp… In a first past the post system, a candidate that panders to leftists will never win. Not in the current political climate at least.
Conservatives line up behind their chosen candidate, but the left can never agree on fucking anything. And conservatives vote.
So we have a situation where only two parties can emerge, and the person representing the left-leaning party (relatively speaking, I know Democrats are not really “left” in general) has a to walk a tightrope in order to get elected. It is impossible for them to please every faction or individual leftist opinion, and trying to do so would end in certain failure.
Harris could very much be privately supportive of Palestine, but if she were to openly condemn Israel prior to the election, she will 100% lose. Yes, that is shitty, but that is reality right now. That’s what needs to be changed, and it doesn’t happen one month before the most important election this country has ever had.
So if you want a Democratic candidate to pander to progressives, then progressives need to make themselves impossible to ignore when there is not an election of this importance going on. That’s how you move the party to the left. Vote down ballot, vote in local elections, organize for progressives candidates, etc.
But until we get rid of this bullshit first past the post system, voting for anybody besides a Democrat or a Republican is an objective waste.
Bernie
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You shouldn’t regret your vote. You voted your conscience. That is all that is required. You didn’t fail the electoral process, it failed you.
You voted your conscience. That is all that is required.
Shit, even that isn’t required. There’s no compulsory voting laws in the US.
Now if you want to actually make a difference…
You don’t use your conscience when voting?
If you want to make a difference? No, you don’t use your conscience, at least not exclusively. You mainly use your brain.
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If Hillary had been a better candidate, and adopted more of Bernie’s policies, she would have earned your vote. You didn’t fail her, she failed you. It’s literally her job as a candidate to sway your vote. She failed. It’s not the electorate’s fault when the candidate doesn’t court them. We need to stop blaming individuals for candidates deficiencies.
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You say she loses of she supports Palestine, we say she loses if she doesnt. Maybe theres something she could do between those extremes like say halt weapon shipments once she takes office pending review.
Apparently the bet is that the jewish group is bigger than the third party anti-war group.
Ho Chi Minh knew all about America’s long history of genocide and slavery.
Happily worked with the Americans in WW2.
You don’t always have perfect allies.
If you have a problem with this line of reasoning then your actual problem is first past the post voting.
Abolish first past the post voting and you can finally actually vote for things you like, rather than against things you hate, but we’re stuck in first past the post voting, so, you must vote strategically.
You wanna change the Democratic Party? Maybe vote more than once every four years. State and local elections have garbage turnouts and this is where right wingers shore up their power (because they ALWATS vote). You need to vote every election, always. You want left leaning Democrats in office? Their careers start small, at the local and state level. Vote for them there and support them as they gain experience and reputation.
But this griping about the electoral process and lack of choices in a national election is just lazy bullsh*t. Yes, a vote for anyone other than Harris is a vote for Trump at this point.
I am a libertarian minarchist. Look it up before you form ideas.
I don’t like Harris but I’d much rather have her over Trump. And that’s how I’ll vote.
I strongly recommend everyone should research your local elections and vote for candidates that best represent your views and mindsets on a local level. The FPtP system makes third parties mostly unviable in influencing national policy.
Negging is a normal and effective way to pursuade people. Things must be going great for you.
Abstaining or voting third party is an exercise of choice. If you want your candidate to win, vote for them, as we all should do.
Vote for the candidate you support. If you don’t support any, you can choose not to vote.
Abstaining is the pinical of lazyness, it is my opinion that those who do not participate give up their right to complain about politics until the next election. If you like none of the candidates write in Batman, spoil your ballot by drawing dicks on it, I dont care, you showed up and that alone is the important part.
And before you what-about-ism areas where voter supression is happening or heavily gerrymandered districts? Yes, this is a problem that must be fixed, but not participating also dosent help that either.
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Decisions are made by those who show up. That’s what it boils down to. I always see it like this: even if I don’t get the result I want, I’ll at least have the satisfaction that my vote cancelled out someone else’s who’s voting against my interests.
So make sure you show up, or someone else who DOES gets to decide for you.
What you are saying is voting to hurt your enemies, what the OP is saying is voting to help yourself. Its a difference of perspective.
This is not about “exercising choice”. This is about affecting the outcome.
Vote for the candidate you support. If you don’t support any, you can choose not to vote.
Yes, those are all choices. Just know that everyone else understands the reality of what your vote (abstention) actually means in practice. So just know that you’re being judged.
Your “judgement” is absolutely meaningless today and it will stay meaningless in the future. Who do you think you are?
“If we lose we will blame you until the end of time.”
These aren’t memes they’re shite propaganda
This is false
Every county in my state always votes red. Due to the way elections are held in this country, it does not matter how I vote. I could vote for Harris, on the tiny chance that enough others will as well, or I could vote 3rd party, and at least increase the percentage of voters doing that so that it doesnt seem as useless next time. Hell, I could vote for trump and there would still be no difference.
Don’t alienate your allies if you want them to stay allies
