I don’t get what’s not to get. AI is a heap of bullshit that’s piled on top of a decade of cryptobros.
it’s not even impressive enough to make a positive world impact in the 2-3 years it’s been publicly available.
shit is going to crash and burn like web3.
I’ve seen people put full on contracts that are behind NDAs through a public content trained AI.
I’ve seen developers use cuck-pilot for a year and “never” code again… until the PR is sent back over and over and over again and they have to rewrite it.
I’ve seen the AI news about new chemicals, new science, new _fill-in-the-blank and it all be PR bullshit.
so yeah, I don’t believe AI is our savior. can it make some convincing porn? sure. can it do my taxes? probably not.
It allows us to predict the structure of proteins before we make them. This can speed up research into protein-based medical treatments by astronomical amounts-- drugs which took years to develop through trial and error and/or thousands of hours of computational power can now be predicted beforehand in terms of their structure, which allows us to predict how they interact woth the proteins in our body. It’s an incredible breakthrough in the speed of medical research.
It’s hype like this that breaks the back of the public when “AI doesn’t change anything”. Don’t get me wrong: AlphaFold has done incredible things. We can now create computational models of proteins in a few hours instead of a decade. But the difference between a computational model and the actual thing is like the difference between a piece of cheese and yellow plastic: they both melt nicely but you’d never want one of them in your quesadilla.
with the compute power required for models like alphafold, my guess is it will be at the monopoly of some corporation which will charge exorbitant prices for any drugs it develops through AI. Not a fault of AI itself, just fucking parasitic shareholder pigs which we should have eaten long ago.
When I hear “AI”, I think of that thing that proofreads my emails and writes boilerplate code. Just a useful tool among a long list of others. Why would I spend emotional effort hating it? I think people who “hate” AI are just as annoying as the people pushing it as the solution to all our problems.
when I get an email written by AI, it means the person who sent it doesn’t deem me worth their time to respond to me themselves.
I get a lot of email that I have to read for work. It used to be about 30 a day that I had to respond to. now that people are using AI, it’s at or over 100 a day.
I provide technical consulting and give accurate feedback based on my knowledge and experience on the product I have built over the last decade and a half.
if nobody is reading my email why does it matter if I’m accurate? if generative AI is training on my knowledge and experience where does that leave me in 5 years?
business is built on trust, AI circumvents that trust by replacing the nuances between partners that grow that trust.
You are ignoring ALL of the of the positive applications of AI from several decades of development, and only focusing on the negative aspects of generative AI.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of some applications:
In healthcare as a tool for earlier detection and prevention of certain diseases
For anomaly detection in intrusion detection system, protecting web servers
Disaster relief for identifying the affected areas and aiding in planning the rescue effort
Fall detection in e.g. phones and smartwatches that can alert medical services, especially useful for the elderly.
Various forecasting applications that can help plan e.g. production to reduce waste.
Etc…
There have even been a lot of good applications of generative AI, e.g. in production, especially for construction, where a generative AI can the functionally same product but with less material, while still maintaining the strength. This reduces cost of manufacturing, and also the environmental impact due to the reduced material usage.
Does AI have its problems? Sure. Is generative AI being misused and abused? Definitely. But just because some applications are useless it doesn’t mean that the whole field is.
A hammer can be used to murder someone, that does not mean that all hammers are murder weapons.
He’s already given you 5 examples of positive impact. You’re just moving the goalposts now.
I’m happy to bash morons who abuse generative AIs in bad applications and I can acknowledge that LLM-fuelled misinformation is a problem, but don’t lump “all AI” together and then deny the very obvious positive impact other applications have had (e.g. in healthcare).
those aren’t examples they’re hearsay. “oh everybody knows this to be true”
You are ignoring ALL of the of the positive applications of AI from several decades of development, and only focusing on the negative aspects of generative AI.
generative AI is the only “AI”. everything that came before that was a thought experiment based on the human perception of a neural network. it’d be like calling a first draft a finished book.
if you consider the Turing Test AI then it blurs the line between a neural net and nested if/else logic.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of some applications:
In healthcare as a tool for earlier detection and prevention of certain diseases
great, give an example of this being used to save lives from a peer reviewed source that won’t be biased by product development or hospital marketing.
For anomaly detection in intrusion detection system, protecting web servers
let’s be real here, this is still a golden turd and is more ML than AI. I know because it’s my job to know.
Disaster relief for identifying the affected areas and aiding in planning the rescue effort
hearsay, give a creditable source of when this was used to save lives. I doubt that AI could ever be used in this way because it’s basic disaster triage, which would open ANY company up to litigation should their algorithm kill someone.
Fall detection in e.g. phones and smartwatches that can alert medical services, especially useful for the elderly.
this dumb. AI isn’t even used in this and you know it. algorithms are not AI. falls are detected when a sudden gyroscopic speed/ direction is identified based on a set number of variables. everyone falls the same when your phone is in your pocket. dropping your phone will show differently due to a change in mass and spin. again, algorithmic not AI.
Various forecasting applications that can help plan e.g. production to reduce waste.
Etc…
forecasting is an algorithm not AI. ML would determine the percentage of an algorithm is accurate based on what it knows. algorithms and ML is not AI.
There have even been a lot of good applications of generative AI, e.g. in production, especially for construction, where a generative AI can the functionally same product but with less material, while still maintaining the strength. This reduces cost of manufacturing, and also the environmental impact due to the reduced material usage.
this reads just like the marketing bullshit companies promote to show how “altruistic” they are.
Does AI have its problems? Sure. Is generative AI being misused and abused? Definitely. But just because some applications are useless it doesn’t mean that the whole field is.
I won’t deny there is potential there, but we’re a loooong way from meaningful impact.
A hammer can be used to murder someone, that does not mean that all hammers are murder weapons.
just because a hammer is a hammer doesn’t mean it can’t be used to commit murder. dumbest argument ever, right up there with “only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
generative AI is the only “AI”. everything that came before that was a thought experiment based on the human perception of a neural network. it’d be like calling a first draft a finished book.
You clearly don’t know much about the field. Generative AI is the new thing that people are going crazy over, and yes it is pretty cool. But it’s built on research into other types of AI-- classifiers being a big one-- that still exist in their own distinct form and are not simply a draft of ChatGPT. In fact, I believe classification is one of the most immediately useful tasks that you can train an AI for. You were given several examples of this in an earlier comment.
Fundamentally, AI is a way to process fuzzy data. It’s an alternative to traditional algorithms, where you need a hard answer with a fairly high confidence but have no concrete rules for determining the answer. It analyzes patterns and predicts what the answer will be. For patterns that have fuzzy inputs but answers that are relatively unambiguous, this allows us to tackle an entire class of computational problems which were previously impossible. To summarize, and at risk of sounding buzzwordy, it lets computers think more like humans. And no, for the record, it has nothing to do with crypto.
Nobody here will give you peer-reviewed articles because it’s clear that your position is overconfident for your subject knowledge, so the likelihood a valid response will change your mind is very small, so it’s not worth the effort. That includes me, sorry. I can explain in more detail how non-generative AI works if you’d like to know more.
not once did I mention ChatGPT or LLMs. why do aibros always use them as an argument? I think it’s because you all know how shit they are and call it out so you can disarm anyone trying to use it as proof of how shit AI is.
everything you mentioned is ML and algorithm interpretation, not AI. fuzzy data is processed by ML. fuzzy inputs, ML. AI stores data similarly to a neural network, but that does not mean it “thinks like a human”.
if nobody can provide peer reviewed articles, that means they don’t exist, which means all the “power” behind AI is just hot air. if they existed, just pop it into your little LLM and have it spit the articles out.
AI is a marketing joke like “the cloud” was 20 years ago.
not once did I mention ChatGPT or LLMs. why do aibros always use them as an argument? I think it’s because you all know how shit they are and call it out so you can disarm anyone trying to use it as proof of how shit AI is.
You were talking about generative AI. Of that category, only text and image generation are mature and producing passable output (music gen sounds bad, video gen is existentially horrifying, code gen or Photoshop autofill etc. are just subsets of text or image gen). I don’t think LLMs or image gen are shit. LLMs in particular are easy to mischaracterize and therefore misuse, but they do have their uses. And image gen is legitimately useful.
Also, I wouldn’t characterize myself as an “ai bro”. I’ve tested text and image generation like half a dozen times each, but I tend to avoid them by default. The exception is Google’s AI search, which can be legitimately useful for summarizing concepts that are fundamental to some people but foreign to me extremely quickly, and then I can go verify it later. I’ve been following AI news closely but I don’t have much of a stake in this myself. If it helps my credibility, I never thought NFTs were a good idea. I think that’s a good baseline for “are your tech opinions based on hype or reality”, because literally every reasonable person agrees that they were stupid.
everything you mentioned is ML and algorithm interpretation, not AI. fuzzy data is processed by ML. fuzzy inputs, ML.
ML is a type of AI, but clearly you have a different definition; what do you mean when you say “AI”?
AI stores data similarly to a neural network, but that does not mean it “thinks like a human”.
That was poorly worded on my part. I know that it doesn’t actually “think”. My point was that it can approach tasks which require heuristic rather than exact algorithms, which used to be exclusively in the human-only category of data processing capabilities. I hope that’s a more clear statement.
if nobody can provide peer reviewed articles, that means they don’t exist
“won’t” =/= “can’t”, but fine, if you specify what you’re looking for I’m willing to do your job for you and find articles on this. However, if you waste my time by making me search for stuff and then ignore it, you’re going on my shared blocklist. What exactly are you looking for? I will try my best to find it, I assure you.
if they existed, just pop it into your little LLM and have it spit the articles out.
Again, I feel like you’re using “AI” to mean “human-level intelligence”, which is incorrect. Anyways, you know that if I asked an LLM to do this it would generate fake citations. I’m not arguing against that; LLMs don’t posess knowledge and do not know what truth is. That’s not why they’re useful.
AI is a marketing joke like “the cloud” was 20 years ago.
I think they’re a bit more useful than the cloud was, but this comparison isn’t entirely inaccurate.
I don’t get why people are harping on the term used so much. Whether we call it “intelligence” or not, and even how we define “intelligence” (fairly difficult to do), have no bearing on its abilities. Feel free to call it Machine Learning where applicable, although afaik that term has a more specific meaning so ymmv.
People can use AI to sell things or do bad things, because it’s a new and situationally very powerful tool. It’s also something that’s not very well understood, so it’s particularly susceptible to grifting. I would recommend anyone in today’s world to take some time and reslly understand how it works so that you know when people are being truthful about its applications and when they’re just overhyping a nonsense feature.
In the world of the past, access to knowledge determined how successful at learning the truth people were. Today, that success is determined by your ability to discriminate between good and bad information. We have access to nearly infinite knowledge and nearly infinite lies. Don’t waste the opportunity to learn to tell the difference. It is the greatest asset you can have.
If you want specific studies, please specify exactly what you’re looking for, and perhaps I can help after work. Alternatively, if you know already, you can simply try to find them yourself, which imo would be more efficient.
LLMs fucking suck. But there are things that don’t suck. AI chess engines have entirety changed the game, AI protein predictors have made designer drugs and nanobots come within our grasp.
It’s just that tech bros want to grab quick cash from us peasants and that somehow equates to integrating chat gpt into everything. The most moronic of AI has become their poster child. It’s like if we asked people what a US president is like in character and everybody showed Trump to them as an example.
Llms fucking suck. But that’s the worst kind of ai. It’s just an autocorrect on steroids. But you know what a good ai is? The one that give an amino acid sequence predicts it’s 3d structure. It’s mind boggling. We can design personal protein robots with that kind of knowledge.
What do you think AI has to do with crypto, other than that they are both technologies which have entered the mainstream recently and been pushed hard? Like, what do they actually have in common?
Hold the phone, I found two things that are even more closely related
The fact that they both use the GPU is mildly interesting, but means nothing beyond conspiracy theories. These events were set in motion decades ago, it’s not like AI was invented because Crypto died.
spoiler
Yes, I am aware of the irony of the website I got that chart from now using GenAI everywhere. That doesn’t make my point less true though.
If AI image generation is so bad why we have so many etsy and patreon artists complaining about it?
If no one would use it because it is so bad why would anyone care that it is trained on their products?
Do you know this joke about MAGA and the Schrodinger’s immigrant? They somehow believe that immigrants are both stealing people jobs and lazy and living on wellfare.
AntiAI bros are somehow similar. AI is at the same time stealing artists jobs and completely useless incapable of producing nothing that people would want.
I don’t get what’s not to get. AI is a heap of bullshit that’s piled on top of a decade of cryptobros.
it’s not even impressive enough to make a positive world impact in the 2-3 years it’s been publicly available.
shit is going to crash and burn like web3.
I’ve seen people put full on contracts that are behind NDAs through a public content trained AI.
I’ve seen developers use cuck-pilot for a year and “never” code again… until the PR is sent back over and over and over again and they have to rewrite it.
I’ve seen the AI news about new chemicals, new science, new _fill-in-the-blank and it all be PR bullshit.
so yeah, I don’t believe AI is our savior. can it make some convincing porn? sure. can it do my taxes? probably not.
It literally just won people two Nobel prizes
How does that help the rest of us?
It allows us to predict the structure of proteins before we make them. This can speed up research into protein-based medical treatments by astronomical amounts-- drugs which took years to develop through trial and error and/or thousands of hours of computational power can now be predicted beforehand in terms of their structure, which allows us to predict how they interact woth the proteins in our body. It’s an incredible breakthrough in the speed of medical research.
It’s hype like this that breaks the back of the public when “AI doesn’t change anything”. Don’t get me wrong: AlphaFold has done incredible things. We can now create computational models of proteins in a few hours instead of a decade. But the difference between a computational model and the actual thing is like the difference between a piece of cheese and yellow plastic: they both melt nicely but you’d never want one of them in your quesadilla.
with the compute power required for models like alphafold, my guess is it will be at the monopoly of some corporation which will charge exorbitant prices for any drugs it develops through AI. Not a fault of AI itself, just fucking parasitic shareholder pigs which we should have eaten long ago.
Damn I hope not but yeah probably :(
Hooray for them. \s
When I hear “AI”, I think of that thing that proofreads my emails and writes boilerplate code. Just a useful tool among a long list of others. Why would I spend emotional effort hating it? I think people who “hate” AI are just as annoying as the people pushing it as the solution to all our problems.
I don’t think anybody hates spell checkers if that’s what you consider “AI”.
It’s more about the grifters pushing this phony “intelligence” as the savior/destroyer of humanity.
when I get an email written by AI, it means the person who sent it doesn’t deem me worth their time to respond to me themselves.
I get a lot of email that I have to read for work. It used to be about 30 a day that I had to respond to. now that people are using AI, it’s at or over 100 a day.
I provide technical consulting and give accurate feedback based on my knowledge and experience on the product I have built over the last decade and a half.
if nobody is reading my email why does it matter if I’m accurate? if generative AI is training on my knowledge and experience where does that leave me in 5 years?
business is built on trust, AI circumvents that trust by replacing the nuances between partners that grow that trust.
You are ignoring ALL of the of the positive applications of AI from several decades of development, and only focusing on the negative aspects of generative AI.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of some applications:
There have even been a lot of good applications of generative AI, e.g. in production, especially for construction, where a generative AI can the functionally same product but with less material, while still maintaining the strength. This reduces cost of manufacturing, and also the environmental impact due to the reduced material usage.
Does AI have its problems? Sure. Is generative AI being misused and abused? Definitely. But just because some applications are useless it doesn’t mean that the whole field is.
A hammer can be used to murder someone, that does not mean that all hammers are murder weapons.
Imaginary and unproven cases without any apparent “intelligence”.
Seriously… Fall detection? It’s like 3 lines of code… Disaster relief? Show me any actual evidence of “AI” being used…
These are not imaginary uses cases. Are you generally critical of technology?
give me at least two peer reviewed articles that AI has had a measurably positive impact on society over the last 24 months.
shouldn’t be too hard for AI to come up with that, right?
if you can do that then I’ll admit that AI has potential to become more than a crypto scam.
He’s already given you 5 examples of positive impact. You’re just moving the goalposts now.
I’m happy to bash morons who abuse generative AIs in bad applications and I can acknowledge that LLM-fuelled misinformation is a problem, but don’t lump “all AI” together and then deny the very obvious positive impact other applications have had (e.g. in healthcare).
Who’s upvoting this? Is Lemmy really this scientifically illiterate?
those aren’t examples they’re hearsay. “oh everybody knows this to be true”
generative AI is the only “AI”. everything that came before that was a thought experiment based on the human perception of a neural network. it’d be like calling a first draft a finished book.
if you consider the Turing Test AI then it blurs the line between a neural net and nested if/else logic.
great, give an example of this being used to save lives from a peer reviewed source that won’t be biased by product development or hospital marketing.
let’s be real here, this is still a golden turd and is more ML than AI. I know because it’s my job to know.
hearsay, give a creditable source of when this was used to save lives. I doubt that AI could ever be used in this way because it’s basic disaster triage, which would open ANY company up to litigation should their algorithm kill someone.
this dumb. AI isn’t even used in this and you know it. algorithms are not AI. falls are detected when a sudden gyroscopic speed/ direction is identified based on a set number of variables. everyone falls the same when your phone is in your pocket. dropping your phone will show differently due to a change in mass and spin. again, algorithmic not AI.
forecasting is an algorithm not AI. ML would determine the percentage of an algorithm is accurate based on what it knows. algorithms and ML is not AI.
this reads just like the marketing bullshit companies promote to show how “altruistic” they are.
I won’t deny there is potential there, but we’re a loooong way from meaningful impact.
just because a hammer is a hammer doesn’t mean it can’t be used to commit murder. dumbest argument ever, right up there with “only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
You clearly don’t know much about the field. Generative AI is the new thing that people are going crazy over, and yes it is pretty cool. But it’s built on research into other types of AI-- classifiers being a big one-- that still exist in their own distinct form and are not simply a draft of ChatGPT. In fact, I believe classification is one of the most immediately useful tasks that you can train an AI for. You were given several examples of this in an earlier comment.
Fundamentally, AI is a way to process fuzzy data. It’s an alternative to traditional algorithms, where you need a hard answer with a fairly high confidence but have no concrete rules for determining the answer. It analyzes patterns and predicts what the answer will be. For patterns that have fuzzy inputs but answers that are relatively unambiguous, this allows us to tackle an entire class of computational problems which were previously impossible. To summarize, and at risk of sounding buzzwordy, it lets computers think more like humans. And no, for the record, it has nothing to do with crypto.
Nobody here will give you peer-reviewed articles because it’s clear that your position is overconfident for your subject knowledge, so the likelihood a valid response will change your mind is very small, so it’s not worth the effort. That includes me, sorry. I can explain in more detail how non-generative AI works if you’d like to know more.
not once did I mention ChatGPT or LLMs. why do aibros always use them as an argument? I think it’s because you all know how shit they are and call it out so you can disarm anyone trying to use it as proof of how shit AI is.
everything you mentioned is ML and algorithm interpretation, not AI. fuzzy data is processed by ML. fuzzy inputs, ML. AI stores data similarly to a neural network, but that does not mean it “thinks like a human”.
if nobody can provide peer reviewed articles, that means they don’t exist, which means all the “power” behind AI is just hot air. if they existed, just pop it into your little LLM and have it spit the articles out.
AI is a marketing joke like “the cloud” was 20 years ago.
You were talking about generative AI. Of that category, only text and image generation are mature and producing passable output (music gen sounds bad, video gen is existentially horrifying, code gen or Photoshop autofill etc. are just subsets of text or image gen). I don’t think LLMs or image gen are shit. LLMs in particular are easy to mischaracterize and therefore misuse, but they do have their uses. And image gen is legitimately useful.
Also, I wouldn’t characterize myself as an “ai bro”. I’ve tested text and image generation like half a dozen times each, but I tend to avoid them by default. The exception is Google’s AI search, which can be legitimately useful for summarizing concepts that are fundamental to some people but foreign to me extremely quickly, and then I can go verify it later. I’ve been following AI news closely but I don’t have much of a stake in this myself. If it helps my credibility, I never thought NFTs were a good idea. I think that’s a good baseline for “are your tech opinions based on hype or reality”, because literally every reasonable person agrees that they were stupid.
ML is a type of AI, but clearly you have a different definition; what do you mean when you say “AI”?
That was poorly worded on my part. I know that it doesn’t actually “think”. My point was that it can approach tasks which require heuristic rather than exact algorithms, which used to be exclusively in the human-only category of data processing capabilities. I hope that’s a more clear statement.
“won’t” =/= “can’t”, but fine, if you specify what you’re looking for I’m willing to do your job for you and find articles on this. However, if you waste my time by making me search for stuff and then ignore it, you’re going on my shared blocklist. What exactly are you looking for? I will try my best to find it, I assure you.
Again, I feel like you’re using “AI” to mean “human-level intelligence”, which is incorrect. Anyways, you know that if I asked an LLM to do this it would generate fake citations. I’m not arguing against that; LLMs don’t posess knowledge and do not know what truth is. That’s not why they’re useful.
I think they’re a bit more useful than the cloud was, but this comparison isn’t entirely inaccurate.
Classification =/= intelligence.
My spell checker can classify incorrectly spelled words. Is that intelligence? The whole field if a phony grift.
Nuf said.
I don’t get why people are harping on the term used so much. Whether we call it “intelligence” or not, and even how we define “intelligence” (fairly difficult to do), have no bearing on its abilities. Feel free to call it Machine Learning where applicable, although afaik that term has a more specific meaning so ymmv.
People can use AI to sell things or do bad things, because it’s a new and situationally very powerful tool. It’s also something that’s not very well understood, so it’s particularly susceptible to grifting. I would recommend anyone in today’s world to take some time and reslly understand how it works so that you know when people are being truthful about its applications and when they’re just overhyping a nonsense feature.
In the world of the past, access to knowledge determined how successful at learning the truth people were. Today, that success is determined by your ability to discriminate between good and bad information. We have access to nearly infinite knowledge and nearly infinite lies. Don’t waste the opportunity to learn to tell the difference. It is the greatest asset you can have.
If you want specific studies, please specify exactly what you’re looking for, and perhaps I can help after work. Alternatively, if you know already, you can simply try to find them yourself, which imo would be more efficient.
LLMs fucking suck. But there are things that don’t suck. AI chess engines have entirety changed the game, AI protein predictors have made designer drugs and nanobots come within our grasp.
It’s just that tech bros want to grab quick cash from us peasants and that somehow equates to integrating chat gpt into everything. The most moronic of AI has become their poster child. It’s like if we asked people what a US president is like in character and everybody showed Trump to them as an example.
In what way is a chess engine meaningfully “intelligent”?
If I just hand wave all the good things and call them bullshit, AI is nothing more than bad things!
Current “AI’s” (LLMs) are only useful for art and non-fact based text. The two things people particularly do not need computers to do for them.
Llms fucking suck. But that’s the worst kind of ai. It’s just an autocorrect on steroids. But you know what a good ai is? The one that give an amino acid sequence predicts it’s 3d structure. It’s mind boggling. We can design personal protein robots with that kind of knowledge.
Removed by mod
Frfr no cap
If I just hand wave all the bad things and call them amazing, AI is everything but the bad things!
cryptobrosAI evangelistsWhat do you think AI has to do with crypto, other than that they are both technologies which have entered the mainstream recently and been pushed hard? Like, what do they actually have in common?
People think they’re bad /s ;)
This but unironically
I think there are some fair reasons, and some… Just ignorant parroted opinions lol
the crypto scam ended when the AI scam started. AI conveniently uses the same/similar hardware that crypto used before the bubble burst.
that not enough? take a look at this google trends that shows when interest in crypto died AI took off.
so yeah, there’s a lot more that connects the two than what you’d like people to believe.
Hold the phone, I found two things that are even more closely related
The fact that they both use the GPU is mildly interesting, but means nothing beyond conspiracy theories. These events were set in motion decades ago, it’s not like AI was invented because Crypto died.
spoiler
Yes, I am aware of the irony of the website I got that chart from now using GenAI everywhere. That doesn’t make my point less true though.
If AI image generation is so bad why we have so many etsy and patreon artists complaining about it?
If no one would use it because it is so bad why would anyone care that it is trained on their products?
Do you know this joke about MAGA and the Schrodinger’s immigrant? They somehow believe that immigrants are both stealing people jobs and lazy and living on wellfare.
AntiAI bros are somehow similar. AI is at the same time stealing artists jobs and completely useless incapable of producing nothing that people would want.