I’m an atheist. I was raised religious and still have numerous Christian theists in my life.

The Bible is the best argument against Christianity.

At every turn, and in a myriad of contexts, whether to dunk and prove a point, or to insert a conflicting argument that will actually make a religious person think, knowing the Bible has been of great personal value to me. I’ll make some posts in the coming weeks to discuss some of the points below that I’d like to share more deeply on. This post is trying to make the case that the Bible is the weak spot in the Christian armor. Theists wriggle when you make them explain their own book.

The whole text is daunting. It is supposed to be. The Bible is confusing, disjointed, sometimes scary, violent, and obscene, other times mind numbingly boring. Unapproachable by rank and file Christians without “help interpreting.” Christians of all faiths cherry pick parts to justify their beliefs. “Bible study” is the vehicle that each denomination uses to teach and justify their specific beliefs.

But, whether you are early in deconversion, halfway there, or fully awake, you can look to the Bible and find tons of evidence against any of Christianity being real, grounded in fact, or believable at all. Taken as a whole, and not cherry picking verses, the Bible can be understood, in it’s context.

I challenge any believer or non believer to read the entire Bible, using any realistic, scholarly translation. When something doesn’t fit or doesn’t make sense, research it. It blows my mind how shaky the Bible is while reading any book completely, especially remembering that this is the justification for the entire religion.

Start at the beginning, really studying it, and you will realize modern Christians do like 10% of what “God commanded” in the OT. They offhandedly disregard the rest as old Jewish nonsense and simultaneously use the 10% they do hold on to justify hating anyone that loves someone that’s not approved. I’m not in favor of letting people get away with that. Want to quote Leviticus to justify homophobia? Explain why wearing mixed fabrics, eating shellfish, and getting Jesus tattoos.

The OT is crazy all the way through. If I started listing all the things the OT condones that are objectively immoral by modern standards, it would be its own (very long) post.

Even better, look at the NT. If you are already deconverted, and have people around you that still believe, this is bread and butter. Many of the tactics Christians use to dismiss valid arguments about the OT won’t work on the NT.

Some of my favorites from the NT (feel free to comment with any of your favorites I may have missed):

  • The gospels were written long after Jesus would have lived by people that lived after Jesus died (not the apostles that they’re named after). They were written in a language no apostle would have spoken (Greek instead of Aramaic).

  • The apostles don’t match each other on critical points of the Christ story. Read from crucifixion through the tomb to resurrection in each of the 4 gospels and you will see what I mean. Try to make a list of “facts” from each and compare. Why are they wildly different?

  • Paul: 13 of the 27 books of the NT (nearly half) are attributed to Paul but even Christian scholars have to admit that at least 3, and probably 6 of those 13 are written by someone else claiming to be Paul. The Bible has Jesus dying 33 CE. The writings of Paul are 15 years to 34 years later. Paul’s writings are the foundations of most of modern Christian thinking. Christians gloss over the shaky historicity of Paul’s writings. These books were written specifically to create a religion from the cult that had sprung up around them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles#Authenticity

  • Revelation: Oft quoted and preached on to instill fear in the audience. Christians completely misunderstand this book in context. First, Revelation is written somewhere 81-96 CE, ~50 years past the crucifixion. The author, John of Patmos, is not an apostle either. Just done guy in exile, named John. It matches a literary style common at the time where apocalypse was the theme. It is a deeply symbolic work and is clearly about the Roman empire, and the writers problems with it, if you give it any serious study. Revelation is not, and cannot be a prophecy for many reasons, the biggest being over kill. Logically read, the earth is totally devastated 3 or 4 times over. By the middle of the book everyone on earth would already be dead. Revelation 6 has the Sun going black and the stars falling from the sky to the earth, by chapter 8 the sea is poison. 22 chapters total and there is enough destruction to kill us all at least 3 or 4 times before the halfway point. Read up on apocalyptic literature of the time. It is all intended to be code so that the author can condemn and talk shit about his enemies in a way that won’t get him killed in court (John of Patmos, the author, is already in enough trouble with Rome at the writing to be living in exile, and yet the work is shit talking against Rome). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature

Thanks for reading. However, I don’t ever want to be confidently incorrect. Please tell me if you disagree with anything and I’d love to hear what others think is important, relevant to this topic. Expand please. Teach me something.

  • Cranakis @lemmy.oneOP
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    1 year ago

    Thank you for the reply. There is a bunch to unpack here. Give me a day or so. I have more to say here but will consider what you’ve written here for a sec first please.

    Edit: Well I couldn’t sleep so I came back to it. See below:

    A truthful thoughtful response.

    I am a progressive Christian who has read the Bible through many times. I was a pastor for many years, though am no longer.

    I have criticisms’a’plenty for “progressive Christianity.” In my old age I’ve come to blame progressive Christians for perpetuating a problem. I do understand it though and have empathy. My own brother is a progressive Christian. It’s better than evangelical or fundamentalist for sure. “Pastor” means nothing to me though. I’ve known a bunch of pastors that didn’t know jack shit but thought they knew everything. So color me skeptical on your actual, factual knowledge of the Bible.

    …The Old Testament is its own thing…I’m going to leave that there for now…

    So, I win? The Old Testament is nonsense, right?

    The gospels, are not historical accounts…they’re not meant to be an impartial…each author had a specific goal…four different answers

    Aren’t you making my point for me here?

    This isn’t unusual, especially in ancient writings, but even in modern history, differing recorded accounts doesn’t mean the event didn’t transpire.

    Yeah yeah. There probably was a person named Jesus who thought he was god and was crucified. I give you that. I think that is not enough to base an entire faith on.

    As for the gospels being written in Greek, that’s entirely normal.

    What? For scholars maybe but this is Judean Jews. Would any of the apostles have spoken Greek? It was written in Greek to give it legitimacy among the rest of the cult at the time probably. Who knows. Why did it take so long to write it down also, if there are all these Greek speaking Judeans running around?

    there is no scholarly consensus…It is hardly impossible

    You are making my point again. It does actually seem impossible, to me.

    Paul…hijacked nascent Christianity to create a cult…

    I think now that Paul probably saved the early cult of Christianity from extinction. He bound it with common laws and goals and packaged it for the masses. Added salvation and strapped hell to the penalty for disobedience making the religion infectious.

    We clearly disagree on Paul, I think, and his motivations. Seems like you agree with me more than you think though.

    • Ashyr@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Absolutely, I appreciate your thoughtful response. Like I said, not trying to convert or even win an argument, per se. I just wanted to point out that there are intelligent, thoughtful people who’ve thoroughly studied and read the Bible and still believe it to be true.

      There are a lot of ways to read and understand the Bible. How many western evangelicals interpret and teach the Bible is ignorant and deeply messed up. There’s a massive history here going back to the “Great Awakening” which allowed foolish but persuasive men to largely define what American Christianity would be for nearly 300 years. Just because it’s the dominant view in America doesn’t make it right.

      • Cranakis @lemmy.oneOP
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        1 year ago

        I think you will eventually realize that Christianity is all nonsense friend. That is for the best in my opinion. I have only an objective lens on the Bible. It fails chapter by chapter, book by book, in my opinion. There is nothing there worthy to build your own morality, faith, or life on.

        Click on those links. Read the forwards and footnotes.