- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
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China: We are building out infrastructure because it is good for our people.
The US: Auuuurrrggghh! WHoSe GoNnA PaY FoR ThiS!? WheN CaN I ExPecT a PROFIT!?
And we’re going to reduce our reliance on oil? No no, too bad.
China: we are building out infrastructure because it is good for the people
Lemmitors: no, that’s actually because they’re very authoritarian, building public infrastructure for public use is exactly what evil dictators do
Reasonable people: no, it’s because it’s good for their people and economy, but that has no bearing on whether the country is authoritarian or not.
China Good and China Bad are equally annoying opinions to me.
I’d still choose to live in China over the USA any day though haha
US: We need to make 500 more billionaires, and we could probably do both the same time, but why risk it.
This was the most infuriating bullshit. Why is anyone listening to Musk? He’s there to line his pockets, that’s it.
People fall for the con man that only has “concepts of plans”, the con man with actual “plans” is literally invisible to them let alone a blind spot.
Musk has nothing to do with the woes of the California High Speed Rail project. He’s just commenting from the peanut gallery and getting picked up by the news. He admitted hyperloop was never a serious proposal and it never factored into the actual decision making process for the project.
The reason the project is so delayed is because of democracy. It’s a long distance route so it crosses many different county lines and properties along the way. Each of those counties have their own municipal governments involved and there are lots of private property holders along the way too. Couple that with the public consultations, the bidding for all the contracts, the environmental assessments (which are the bane of every construction project in California), and the high cost of labour for workers in California (and USA generally).
All of this comes long after the US had engaged in the process of outsourcing manufacturing and importing (in the form of undocumented workers and other low-skilled migrants) its construction workforce. This has left the US very badly equipped to handle large construction projects even after finally approving them. The US is a very different country, skill- and education-wise, from the New Deal era of the 1930s.
Newsome too busy pandering to shareholder grifters to actually do anything that helps the working class
To be fair, China’s high speed rail network has also grown so quickly because there are no public consultations or similar. They just build it, the people be damned. If you don’t have a democracy, that works. But I would rather live in a democracy than an authoritarian state (at the same time, I’m glad I’m not living in the crumbling democracy that is the US).
Of course, what Elon is saying is total BS, and the US could have started much earlier - or, that is, improved the north east corridor and used that experience to bring more high speed rail to the US much earlier. But anyway…
The US will never have true high speed rail because they would rather deliver maximum profit to shareholders than acturally improve anything, thats why in a decade from now China will probrally still have a pretty good standard of living while the US will become a fascist undeveloped hellhole.
Obligatory “but at what cost!”
And Chinese citizens consistently poll as being more satisfied with their election options and outcomes than Americans. Honestly, when you’re at the point where you’re saying that China is authoritarian but worlds largest prison state USA isn’t, you’re basically just giving up the game that you’re using the word as a euphemism for “non-western”
Lol did you even read my comment? I specifically said the US democracy is crumbling. Three guesses as to what democracy crumbles into.
But yeah OK, China is a great democracy, go ahead and vote out the CCP. I’ll wait.
So you know nothing of Chinese politics or its party
Funny how it’s always “crumbling” but never actually crumbled. Non-western countries are full on authoritarian, but western countries are only ever “maybe heading in that direction, possibly” even when they do even worse shit than China ever did.
Why role I vote out the CPC? It’s incredibly fucking telling that your idea of “democracy” is an incredibly popular party being removed from power because westerners don’t like them. Chinese citizens absolutely could vote them out if they wanted, but the in the western white supremacists idea of democracy, only the opinion of westerners matters.
How about you go ahead and vote out capitalist parties in the West, if they’re such great democracies?
“Why would I vote out [authoritarian government]? It’s a very popular government!” -every authoritarian supporter, ever
And there is a very major difference between one party that controls who gets on the ballot and a swath of parties that agree on a certain economic principle, that’s a false equivalency. And there have been capitalist parties voted out in the West, so even with that false pretext your argument is moot.
Oh, and stop putting words into my mouth. Things I never wrote:
- Western democracies are maybe heading in that direction, possibly -> yeah, they’re not a monolithic block, different countries are different, just like Asian countries are not a monolithic block - and backsliding into authoritarianism isn’t something that happens overnight
- My idea of democracy is a popular party being removed -> no, my idea of democracy is that the people have the right to chose a different party and to publicly voice dissent
- …because westerners don’t like them -> no, because I believe humans have a right to chose who governs them
Oh, and stop putting words into my mouth. Things I never wrote:
That guy is a known ragebaiter, Fyi
I was wondering, good to know, thanks.
“Why would I vote out [authoritarian government]? It’s a very popular government!” -every authoritarian supporter, ever
So you’re just straight up admitting that you don’t care if the government is popular: you don’t like it, so it has to go
And there have been capitalist parties voted out in the West, so even with that false pretext your argument is moot.
Lol. When?
Western democracies are maybe heading in that direction, possibly -> yeah, they’re not a monolithic block, different countries are different, just like Asian countries are not a monolithic block - and backsliding into authoritarianism isn’t something that happens overnight
I have no idea how you managed to miss the point the completely and absolutely.
no, my idea of democracy is that the people have the right to chose a different party
Ah. So actually being able to choose policy doesn’t matter; what matters is being able to choose between red team and blue team
no, because I believe humans have a right to chose who governs them
And the people of China have chosen the CPC. But you’ll never accept that, because they’re not who you want them to choose. You will never accept that China is democratic unless it’s run by people you like.
Wow, you claimed I missed the point - I was just pointing out that you’re putting words into my mouth, but the projection is pretty damn strong here.
The point is that authoritarian will always claim their party is popular, no matter what. If you want an American example, take Trump, he does the same shit.
The people of China have chosen the CPC
To quote you:
Lol. When?
(By the way parties like Die Linke in Germany exist and have unseated traditional capitalist parties - so even with your false equivalency your point is moot)
Here are some more things you’ve twisted and put into my mouth that I never fucking wrote:
- I don’t care if the government is popular
- I don’t care about being able to chose policy (hint: by choosing different parties you can chose different policies)
- And again, I somehow have some specific wish on which policies I want China to implement
All things I never wrote.
But then maybe it’s my fault for expecting good faith arguments from someone who likes authoritarianism just because they agree with the policies of the authoritarian and accuses others of seeing everything they don’t like as authoritarianism (oh, here goes the projection again!)
Wow, you claimed I missed the point - I was just pointing out that you’re putting words into my mouth, but the projection is pretty damn strong here.
Ok, I’m done here. No point trying to talk to someone who’s deliberately playing dumb
BuT aT wHaT cOsT
