He somehow seems to think, still, that he can shape the Democrats. “If I thought there was a viable 3rd party do you think I would be voting for them? Fuck no” he says, after scolding someone in his chat, calling them an ultra, for calling him out for his continued connection to the democrats.
But lets think about this for a second…
how the fuck
do you build
a fucking party
do you do it by voting for, another party
do you do it by telling people to vote for another party
or do you do it by building A FUCKING WORKING CLASS PARTY
LIKE FUCKING LENIN SAID
I don’t really understand what Hasan thinks these Democrats are supposed to “DO” in this situation. “They’re not DOING it!” he yells. What is “IT”? Go against their class interests, defy the fundamental laws of capital and somehow break free of their social relations through pure force of will? His proximity to the Democratic Party is what breeds this weird fucking obsession he has.
“These guys are mad because they talk to ME and not their Pedo sex cult leader, that’s why they’re mad”. What if they didn’t talk to you, though? What if tomorrow they just stopped talking to you at all? What if the only reason they talk to you AT ALL is that they know that you have a huge fucking audience, and you are actually effective at moving people to the left? So instead, they give you cookies and treats, they give you access and interviews, they let you into the DNC, they give you access to candidates, like Zoran.
I really do think at this point, that he is being catfished by the Democratic Party. That they understand that he is an effective communicator, and they have somehow convinced him that if he just keeps at it, he can one day kick that football for real.
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Gave it three minutes before I turned that ultra drivel off
Same tried argument “Hasan is leading people to the Democratic Party” completely ignoring the fact that he isn’t, he’s advising people to create an oppositional force within the Democratic Party, an insurgent force capable of challenging the neoliberals of the party leading to an anti-chilling effect and material advances that can lead to the development of a workers politics in the first place
Hasan does not claim the democrats are a workers party or that joining them makes you a socialist, he unlike the ultras simply acknowledges the prevailing political condition of this country is the two party system and the ultra cry for third partyism has FAILED after sixty plus years of trying
So in an admirable adaptation of the leninist strategy where the creation of a workers party is blocked, the strategy of inter-party insurgency takes its place until conditions arise that make a third party workers party viable
I think S4A is extremely uncharitable to Hasan when he does these commentaries but I think you’ve kinda proved the point. The role of a communist is to build a working class party and the Democratic Party is not a working class party as you acknowledge. If you reify only a two party system works because past bourgeois “third partyism” movements have failed you’ve undercut the possibility for any sort of socialist/communist party to make use of bourgeois political institutions in the way Lenin is describing and Hasan is misinterpreting in the clip. You can look at the DSA as a prime example, they have members run as Democrats but ultimately have no mechanisms to hold them accountable when they deviate from the DSA line because the DSA is not a party. Hasan has done good work getting people moving people towards working class organizing but he sees the progressives in Democrats as a vehicle for short term gains for the working class, so it’s worth stumping for a Zohran or AOC.
Then there is NO electoral solution. If the co-opt, tea party like insurgency can’t work and the third party option can’t work (I mean when has the Green party garnered more than 2% of a national vote?)…
What’s left? No one is going to pick up guns. No one is willing to go farther than useless protests. I guess I just sit around and wait to die?
This is what pisses me off about you people. You love to say “organize” as if we are all surrounded by people who actually want to do something. Guess what, they don’t! People are inherently lazy!
Some offense, this is a reddit socdem type comment.
Organizing is about finding and creating people who actually want to do something! When I was laying the groundwork for a union at my old job, some of the people I thought wouldn’t be into it were on-board and willing to help because we had a goal and a path to get there.
I actually think Hasan is a semi-effective organizer because through talking about progressive politics he’s gotten a fair number of people into activism and union work. The main issue is that he doesn’t seem to endorse or outwardly participate in any specific orgs so it’s a little anarchic but I suppose that’s a limitation of his transnational platform.
Some offense taken but not really. It’s just really frustrating from my end that people say they want to do things, and then when I suggest an easy task they can do suddenly all of the excuses come out or now we need a “mission statement” or you know anything short of just saying “no, I don’t want to do that”
Tired of feeling so alone and powerless. If I can’t make anything happen then engaging in politics is just self-harm at a certain point because all it is doing is making me feel like shit
I definitely get the frustration I just don’t like limiting ourselves to electoral politics as the only path because of it, that’s dangerous thinking.
Also I take particular issue with this part of your comment. The options are not vote or gun! A group of people united around the same goal are able to exercise their political, economic, and even physical power to affect change. Lenin explained this! That’s how the Bolsheviks won!
Yeah tell that to the lazy bums in my org
Is it really reification to recognize the prevailing political conditions of the United States and adjust strategy accordingly? The two party system is a cold hard fact, the failure of third parties in the US is a cold hard fact, the nonexistence of a workers movement is a cold hard fact, pretending otherwise is simply wishcasting and is precisely why Hasan’s quoting of Lenin was on point
In light of these conditions the path forward for Leninists is clear
Trigger a internal rupture within one of the two parties that can give raise to the workers movement in the first place
Leveraging the internal rupture create a workers movement/politics that can give raise to a national independent Workers Party that can viably challenge the two parties (the viability being generated by the past buildup of national organizing infrastructure when working within the two party system and leveraging the legitimacy created by socialists/progressives winning elections)
Leverage the discontent of the working class to electorally challenge the two parties so as to invite suppression and crackdown by the state, triggering viable non-electoral counter-organizing on a national scale
We’re still no where near completing the first step, which is why characters like SA4 are out of step and pre-mature in their condemnation, they’re cheerleading for a movement that doesn’t exist yet and trashing those who would be it’s midwives
This will remain a reality until the DNC give us the rupture we want, until then simply winning more elections Zohran-style is sufficient for our purposes, for now
Yes, it is reifying the two party system! Independent members of government have been elected!
Joining and putting organizing efforts into a bourgeois political party in the hopes that it will lead to some sort of rupture that will allow socialists to take control of its part of its resources and legitimacy on the national stage is Trotskyite entryism. Lanyard brain Trotskyism. Machiavelli in a newsboy hat.
Lenin’s position is that the party should be organized by and for the working class and that a party of this type can contest bourgeois elections but the goal is not to necessarily to win it’s to use the platform given to further reach and organize the working class along communist lines.
That is not the same thing as the creation of a viable national Workers Party that can challenge the two parties on a national stage, and you know it
There is no party! It doesn’t exist, a workers movement doesn’t exist, class consciousness doesn’t even exist among the majority of the most labor friendly unions and orgs, and ultras have no plan to counter these conditions beyond vague declarations of orthodoxy
Ironically in perfect Trotskyite form; you’re wishcasting, you’re worldbuilding, detached from realties on the ground, talking about “party this, party that” as if there’s some socialist entity on this soil that can contest 18 intelligence agencies, 5 massive military branches, a million cops and 75 million loyal fascist goosesteppers
Reality dictates we dispense with this fantasizing and commence with step one: which is killing the Democratic Party, and that’s only possible through an internal rupture, cause your book club absolutely doesn’t have the juice to pull it off externally
lmao all I can say is good luck with your party building project, may the Demonkkkrat$ burn
The strategy Hasan is arguing for is to create a party like organization that runs on the Democratic Party line. The point is not to rely on Democratic Party infrastructure or to do entryism. I’m pretty confident Hasan doesn’t believe the Democratic Party can be reformed. Rather he’s just arguing that running in bourgeoisie elections is next to impossible in the US on a third party ballot line.
This is basically the strategy that I believe most of the DSA endorses. The problem is the DSA doesn’t have the necessary infrastructure or consensus to act like a real party and discipline their candidates. That’s not the same problem as the one you’re describing though.
The issue I’m trying to get at is that strategy is inherently contradictory. If the only way progressives can get elected is entering the party that cannot be reformed, then what are those progressives ultimately able to do to change the system in a meaningful way when they’ll be obstructed by that party?
Even if I accept CyborgMarx’s explanation that there will inevitably be a split in the party that allows progressives to break off into their own thing, what prevents the new party from simply replacing/recreating the Democrats within the two party system that’s so entrenched in the American voter’s brain?
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: