hey beehaw team :) this is partly advice seeking and partly just wanting to share my experience and hopefully hear how others feel about he topic. i’m not sure if this is the right community for this either, but hopefully it is!
i’m a cis woman who’s always been a fair bit interested in both femininity and androgyny for my hair and clothing, but lately i’ve been feeling more of a pull than usual to present in a more masculine/butch leaning way. to the point where i’m even considering trying out binding, which i’ve never really thought about before.
i’m a bit conflicted though about all of this, because i do know i have some internalized misogyny regarding femininity being inferior to masculinity. i’m having difficulty telling if i’d like to present more masc because i think femininity is stupid/not cool, or if it’s something i actually want.
does anyone have any advice/thoughts to share about this? i don’t really have anyone irl i can talk to about this, so any input would be really appreciated <3
to be clear, i am not questioning my gender here. i like and use she/her pronouns and am not interested in any others.
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i think you should just figure out how to present yourself in a way that brings you joy without second-guessing if you are doing it because of internalized misogyny. go toward what pulls you. it’s always okay to change your mind.
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I think it’s very easy for presentation preferences to be pretty fluid. Wanting to expand into a new range of styles can be just that. Weird as it might be to say… The fact that you’re worried that it could be internalized misogyny driving it is a pretty good tell that it probably isn’t. Or, if it is, you’ll likely feel that pretty hard as you explore.
Nothing is lost by exploring some new fashion, (assuming you have the budget to do so). Give yourself the space and time to feel what you feel about it when you try things out. If you find yourself thinking ‘everyone should wear this, it’s objectively better’, that’s when I’d be concerned. We live in a world that connects masculinity with power, and while it’s important to remember why that’s a problem on the large scale, if a masc cut jacket gives you a boost and makes you feel strong? There’s nothing wrong with harnessing that for yourself.
see, what makes me think it could be internalized misogyny driving this feeling is that i find myself thinking about how some of my female friends are stupid/vapid for not wanting to be associated with masculinity at all, which is definitely an issue. i feel weirdly… insecure in my masculinity, i think, but being a woman makes that definitely an odd thing to think.
i’m still pretty obviously working through it hahaha, but i think that regardless of what could be driving me, experimentation is probably a good idea.
Looking at what you’ve said here and elsewhere on the thread, I’d say that at worst, you’re dealing with processing socially imbedded roles and assumptions. I can’t speak to much more than USian culture, but there’s a strong association between masculinity and ‘coolness’ and with femininity and soft ‘airheadedness’. Not getting why people wouldn’t want to be cool is a reasonable hang up, and a good thing to know about yourself. Putting practice into holding the idea that “just because I don’t understand it doesn’t make it wrong” is pretty much the path forward there. For exploration on ways you may want to express, I’m not a fan of tiktok as a platform, but there’s a ton of “mascgirl” fashion there. It’s cool, primarily street wear looks, being worn by people proud to be GNC women and girls. It does seem to be a pretty not-straight space, but it isn’t like a requirement.
I’m trying hard to choose the right words to respect your position on the subject. If I end up offending you let me know.
I just wanted to comment about you saying you’re not questioning your gender here. The way I see it, you might be, although not in the way I think you mean.
You are a woman. You define your gender by the way you choose to live your life. When you use terms like masculinity and femininity, the definition comes from the society. I see you questioning the gender by your actions, by trying to deconstruct your conceptions.
I’ve heard a lot that there isn’t only one right way to be trans. There isn’t only one right way to be cis either. Question yourself, don’t judge yourself too harshly, and find your truth.
I know this wasn’t what you wanted, but I thought I should say anyway.
i appreciate this comment <3 i think i tend to see some GNC erasure in lgbt spaces sometimes, where people will assume that a masc woman or fem man are trans/nb because of their presentation, and i feel really negatively about that. i think that gnc folks are really important, and idk, suggesting they’re probably not cis (which i have seen happen) despite them being happy with their gender simply because they present differently rubs me the wrong way a lot.
part of why i might be pushing back more than i probably should be against the idea of being cis is that idea- if i do come to the conclusion that i’m not cis, i think i’d feel like i’m in a way betraying my fellow women and gnc folks in a way. that’s pretty silly to say out loud, and i’m only kind of just now realizing it, and i know that it’s something to work on, but then i do also just feel like a woman, which is where a lot of the pushback could also be coming from.
Nonbinary feminine is a label people use, I don’t see why you can’t for a while and see how it fits? Doesn’t have to mean anything more to you than “cis woman isnt fitting me right now, i feel like a nonbinary woman”, or it doesn’t have to lead to you changing pronouns.
I have one friend who’s identity is “i want you to know i am not a woman but i am definitely explicitly not he/him” and they use she/her and they/them right now.
I shave my head because it’s comfortable. It has nothing to do with any gender presentation, but people will almost always assume masculine on some end. Do you think being misgendered would upset you? If someone sees how you want to present and calls you an identity that isnt you, how would that make you feel?
Not to discourage you! Just stuff to think about! I find a lot of things can be boiled down in society to masculine vs feminine, but it feels like they have to enforce those boundaries so firmly because they’re really socially constructed (fashion and presentation especially!) And really a lot of people feel the same about some fabrics, textures, designs, etc.
Good luck finding your happiness 😊
i appreciate the input :) personally, because i do feel like a woman, i’d say i’m not particularly looking for a label change right now, but thank you for the suggestion!
i think people misgendering as male wouldn’t really make me super uncomfortable or anything, but i’d still correct them because i don’t use he/him.
I would say just try it first and see if you like it? I sort of understand your point since I had some internalized misogyny too. But masculine / androgynous presentation is also pretty common. Might even make you more welcomed among some circles. In the meantime, maybe you need to find a way to deal with the internalized misogyny. For me its therapy and reading.
I often see “fashion” being conflated with “gender” lately, which I think is a product of the very strict gender roles being enforced socially in the US right now. (Girls can’t dress like that! Girls can’t do that job! Girls can’t wear that color! Girls can’t play that sport! Girls can’t wear minimizing bras!) Play with clothing and fashion and style that interest you, and don’t stress over it. Emily Wheatley has a YouTube channel with fashion you might like to check out.
I feel like this is true. As much as it’s ‘allowed’ to transition to be the opposite sex, it’s still somehow not really ok for girls to just like to be outside and dirty and play sports or whatever. Wear whatever you want, and screw everyone else.
