I know there’s some Che quote about this, but I can’t translate it into the reality of living side by side with treatlerites. It rings so hollow. Some say a revolution only requires 3% of the population, but that assumes that you eventually gain the support of most of those remaining 97%. I just don’t see it ever happening. There has never been even a fledgling revolution in an imperial core country.
And with this mindset, I’m guaranteed to become an elitist asshole who plays perfectly into the stereotype of the ivory tower communist, further alienaiting and discrediting myself and the cause, reducing the odds.
I don’t, lol. I just do my own thing, focus on my career, and directly fund the CPC. American society and Americans are culturally diseased in such a unique manner that I do not believe it can be, or is even worth being, saved.
Now plenty of people are out there fighting the good fight and I certainly would not put them down, as an ivory tower would imply. And I certainly wouldn’t be happy if a nuclear war broke out as evens urviving that would mean hell.
But goddamn for a few beautiful moments I would laugh my ass off seeing mushroom clouds.
It really hinges on having people around you that you can deeply respect and trust. If there are just a few people around you that you admire, or even a practice of being aware of when people show each other kindness and solidarity, that gives you something to build on.
I remind myself that this isn’t who these people are inherently, this is what capitalism has turned them into. Hating the treatlerites and deciding to “give up” on socialism just means a society of more and ever more unpleasant treatlerites. If you haven’t seen it, I’d recommend joining the reading group for This Soviet World we currently have going on: https://hexbear.net/post/9074935 or just reading the book yourself if 12 chapters feels a bit too far behind to catch up on. https://comlib.encryptionin.space/epubs/this-soviet-world/
Accounts of people living in the USSR, just 20 years out from the Tsar, and being so radically different to people of a modern capitalist country, focused on community and science and progress instead of Spongebob and Spiderman is very enlightening. People are shaped by their material conditions, under capital people aren’t allowed to flourish, they are pushed into empty treatlerism because they have nothing and are discouraged from thinking about the world, only encouraged to consume. But within a generation of socialism we will see unimaginable change in these people, who have never been encouraged to be their best finally being allowed to do so.
I appreciate the reply. That part I think I’m already on board with.
So how do we get there? How does a treatlerite reach that insight? Can we speed up whatever that is?
Ignore maga/chuds/fascists. Read up on the black and/or indigenous history of your state/region/community. Lecture liberals until they feel bad enough to actually contend with it. Don’t talk down to them unless they deserve it (only fight smug with smug, if they are engaging with you be chill, even when they are ignorant at first).
The only way forward is to directly contend with the original sin of the land which will directly tie to the oppression of black and/or indigenous people. This is the core contradiction that cant be ignored, and the people living in north America wont be liberated until this set of contradictions are resolved.
I agree, but it’s exactly this outlook that makes me doom. White people are the overwhelming majority. (And yes, make fun of me, I’m white too. Basically every white communist I know either came to it via their family or extreme circumstances.) How do we approach this huge mass in a non-suicidal way?
We dont need to convince everyone. Even in DemSoc mode we just need 50.01% of people to agree.
I don’t know how to approach the huge mass. I also dont think it is up to me to figure thaf out alone. I guess my tips are about how to approach those I directly interface with and can influence. If I can get my “progressive” liberal friends to go deeper than “Zohran is pretty cool i guess” and actually face some difficult realities, then things suddenly.feel less bleak to me.
As discussed in one of the other threads here, theory and history tell us that we shouldn’t expect the revolution to happen in the imperial core. Socialism (etc) will be forced upon the empire after our comrades build revolutionary power somewhere at the fringes of the empire. It is up to us to weaken the empire’s ability to sustain itself, and by focusing our political praxis in a liberatory direction.
If you are trying to be the next Lenin in a place that does not breed revolutionary conditions (I mean, godspeed to you and all), it is gonna be a rough time mentally.
The Black Power and Red Power movements are key to moving in any liberatory direction in occupied Turtle Island. The exploitation is ubiquitous and the effects are not going anywhere until they are dealt with. These should be our primary engines of change, rather primarily using a Marxist-Leninist or other lens. Of course other frameworks like M-L still ought to be influential on your praxis, there is still great power there, but is Black and Indigenous liberation frameworks (which are totally compatible) will get us farther sooner.
This post went in a more lofty direction than I meant it to be, I can make it more practical if you still have questions.
There has never been even a fledgling revolution in an imperial core country.
Well, they didn’t pan out, but you’ve got some decent lost causes to look to: the German Revolution and the Spartacists, Paris 1871 and, depending on how you count, Paris 1968.
And to add onto that. The black panthers and the civil rights movements (while they didn’t bring about socialism) have made some substantial changes for the better here in burgerland to the point even libs claim to be part of their tradition.
If the civil rights movement happened today, a lot of leftists would be decrying it for being too liberal
A lot of leftists at the time (themselves also part of the civil rights movement) said that MLK was too liberal and that organized violence was necessary for self defense, and while MLK was certainly useful, those people were still correct.
The leftists of today would have been complaining about woke 1.0
???
Russia had a pretty big revolution or two in 1917 and was part of the imperial core at the time IIRC, or at least it occupied a liminal space between the imperialists and subjugated countries.
Cuba might not have been an imperial core country but it’s 90 miles from the imperial core so pretty close.
Russia had a pretty big revolution or two in 1917 and was part of the imperial core at the time IIRC
Debatable. Russia barely had any industry and therefore barely any proletariat in the stricter Marxist sense, burgeois liberalism was much less advanced there, it skipped key steps that according to Marx would have been a historical prerequesite for a socialist revolution, which is part of why Lenin and later Mao developed their theories of imperialism - to explain why Russia and later China had a successful revolution as largely pre-industrial societies while the UK or Germany didn’t. At that time, no Marxist in the imperial core would have argued like us, they were convinced that the world revolution would start with them.
Cuba might not have been an imperial core country but it’s 90 miles from the imperial core so pretty close.
Cuba was literally a post-colonial brothel / plantation island ran by a puppet government. Imperial Core is not a geographic designation, it’s entirely an economic and political one.
There are people that I love. Flawed people. But I love them.
I have a deep desire to save everyone, or at least as many people as possible and yes, that includes chuds and worse. Even people who would wish me death.
I don’t think I’m better than other lefties but I do legitimately LOVE AND ADORE HUMANITY, whereas there are some left-wingers who are jaded or even misanthropic.
Yes, even with all the fucked-up shit we do, I love humanity I want to try and struggle to save everyone. Redeem us all, if possible.
Call it naive or childish if you will, but that is how I feel.
I see humanity and I see infinite possibilities.
I want to choose hope even in the face of almost certain defeat.
I say this as a black trans woman
We’re animals, and we behave the way we’re conditioned. You can’t really blame treatlerites when their entire culture tells them that’s how to live. More than ever before in history, products are delivered directly to peoples doors for consumption with all the pain and suffering slickly obscured. More than ever, western societies do their best to hide the worst suffering from the consumer.The solution isn’t to turn everyone into brooding vanguard communists.
Communism is only one expression of ourselves and our experiences, not the totality of it. Finding reasons to live and love will not only keep your light alive, it will help it burn brighter.
More than ever before in history, products are delivered directly to peoples doors for consumption with all the pain and suffering slickly obscured.
Thiiiis and also Damarcus post. People around us are targeted by an unprecedented enemy propaganda engine. They are at war with capital, they’re losing and most don’t even know it
Both strategically and socially, we must hold open the door for hope, and push back on neolibs and operators who would misappropriate hope and change
How can I find reasons to live and love when we are gleefully burning the planet? I can’t bring myself to play the violin as the city burns.
As harsh as it is sounds, if you live in the global north, economic west. The universe has decided you get to live in the last generation that is reasonably insulated from the planet-murder we’ve wrought. Even if you tried, you’d never be able to eat all our sins alone. Feeling the sadness of every human isn’t going to save the planet, or you.
I’m sorry you’re cursed with the awareness - but that awareness can’t do anything for anyone, or the planet, if you sink.
I remember people like you exist and it gives me hope
What helps me is the belief that the things people do are almost entirely based on conditioning, like another animal just adapting to their environment with little conscious effort driving it. I don’t get mad at or hate a bee that stings someone, I usually feel the same about treatlerites etc. Most people general don’t want to be assholes, they have some empathy when actually directly interacting with people, they are selfish and competitive and anti-socialist because they’ve been tricked by our economic and social order and the bourgous media that props up the capitalist ideal. I don’t think being an “ivory tower communist” would necessarily discredit yourself or the cause though, you should be proud of having the fortune to see through the conditioning to a better reality.
There has never been even a fledgling revolution in an imperial core country.
In addition to counterexamples others mentioned, there was also Spain.
If you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading Masses, Elites, and Rebels. It talks about avoiding becoming an ivory tower communist, but also about seeing people not as evil but as trying to survive. You should also check out Cowbee’s reading list.
As for what percentage we are, that’s the work of organizing. We should not wait passively until people are aligned with us - not only is that unlikely to happen, but it’s also disheartening. We need to actively go out and get people and bring them into the fold and turn them into organizers who do the same.
It’s an absolutely enormous amount of work, but that’s just… it. We need to climb a mountain that has never been climbed before, and we’re at the base. We can study what has been done before, but we will still pick wrong paths and need to backtrack. We don’t know how long it will take. We will lose people. But NOT climbing the mountain is simply not an option.
The best antidote to feeling helpless is getting out there and trying to build socialism. There will never be a point where you’re “ready,” you just need to be willing to learn as you go. You’ll have conversations that make you want to throw in the towel, but you’ll also find people that believe in the same thing and will help.
it’s because of my love for humans my hatred of treatlerism grows weekly.
Good perspective, but I feel entirely surrounded. I can’t find the normal ones.
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I’m in the same position. All I have ever known is abuse, neglect, and hatred. Every day it becomes more and more difficult for me to not give up on humanity.
Prayer
oh shit you’re back!
