• Zedstrian@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    398·
    3 天前

    Yet Mélenchon is also disturbingly pro-Russia in terms of how he would handle aid to Ukraine.

      • Bad@jlai.lu
        52·
        1 天前

        Hahah if only I had time for every one of them, but by now I’ve come to the conclusion it’s easier to spread propaganda than it is to counter it. Brandolini’s law helping the far right yet again, as usual.

        Apparently you can host Putin’s leftist opposition for decades, dump one of them the day he sides with Russia in the Ukraine war, and you’ll still be labeled pro Russia & anti Uxraine. What is even the point of arguing.

        I wish people could grasp that if LFI or Mélenchon were pro Russia in any way or form, most of us.ground level activists would leave them imnediately without looking back. Radical leftists are mostly all pro-peace and anti imperialists as our core values, two things that are not compatible with Russia. If only tankies supported him, LFI wouldn’t be the biggest organic movement in the french left since the 1930s.

        • Zedstrian@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          2·
          14 小时前

          As I mentioned in my other comment, Mélanchon is moderating what he says as the election draws closer, but by saying that there should be a vote in the Donbas to determine which country it belongs to, he is inherently legitimizing Russia’s illegal claim to it.

          Calling for withdrawing from NATO and involvement in ‘American wars’ inherently implies that the war in Ukraine is one of those wars, something that couldn’t be further from the truth after the U.S. has abandoned Ukraine since the start of Trump’s presidency.

          I might agree with most of Mélanchon’s platform, but unconditional support for Ukraine is a requirement that must not be weakened.

            • Zedstrian@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              2·
              1 天前

              Depuis le meeting tenu au Bourget ce samedi 7 novembre, des attaques coordonnées attribuent à Jean-Luc Mélenchon une position sur la guerre en Ukraine qui n’a jamais été la sienne. Pour avoir dit que toute hypothétique cession de territoire ukrainien devrait être validée par le vote de toutes les populations concernées, le candidat de la France insoumise est accusé de souhaiter ces cessions de territoire ukrainien à la Russie, donc d’être la « voix de Vladimir Poutine ».

              I don’t think he’s directly regurgitating the Kremlin’s talking points, but he is still helping to legitimize an outcome where the Donbas joins Russia by suggesting that the people living there could legitimately vote to join Russia. There are no legitimate means for Russia to annex Ukrainian territory, and any vote conducted in occupied territory to legitimize such an annexation would not be fair or free. The above quote from the LFI statement directly references holding such a vote. If such an annexation were to remain in place after an armistice, neither France nor any other Western country should recognize any such territory as being anything but Ukrainian.

              S’agissant des autres aspects relatifs à la guerre en Ukraine, la position de la France insoumise est constante depuis 2022. La France insoumise a systématiquement soutenu, au Parlement européen notamment, les textes et plans de soutien à l’Ukraine pour lui donner la capacité de se défendre, aussi longtemps que celle-ci fera l’objet de l’agression illégale russe. Les seules exceptions, assumées, renvoient aux votes impliquant la livraison de missiles longue portée à l’Ukraine – livraisons refusées depuis 4 ans par l’Allemagne, par exemple ; à l’envoi de forces combattantes sur le sol ukrainien ; aux textes prévoyant l’adhésion de l’Ukraine à l’Union européenne au risque d’une aggravation sans précédent du dumping social qui fracture déjà l’UE.

              Furthermore, by denying Ukraine access to long-range missiles, their platform is assuming that Ukraine could somehow bring Russia to the negotiating table by simply slowing down Russian territorial annexation, rather than waging an effective war that diverts Russian resources away from its war effort.

              Troops on the ground are not meant to wage war against Russia, but rather help defend Ukraine’s border after any peace deal. Without a substantial force backing Ukrainian sovereignty, nothing will stop Russia from invading Ukraine again. To further that end and assist in the country’s economic recovery, the accession of Ukraine to the EU is also essential. Doing so also benefits EU member states by substantially expanding the tariff-free customer base for its companies and shoring up access to natural resources from a country politically aligned with the EU, rather than less reliable international partners such as the U.S. or China.

    • ElectricVocalist@jlai.lu
      1311·
      3 天前

      He is not? He doesn’t want things to escalate, but everything we are doing today, he supports continuing to do

      • Zedstrian@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        262·
        3 天前

        Only recently has he softened his tone to avoid criticism on the issue, but he still offers legitimacy to the Russian position by claiming that sovereignty over Donbas is disputed and should be resolved with a vote.

        Mélanchon wants France to leave NATO and be ‘non-aligned’, but being non-aligned while one European country is being invaded by another without justification does not lead to a just and sustainable long-term peace.

  • Hyperion@midwest.social
    14·
    3 天前

    This dude has said some extremely problematic things and expressed extremely problematic positions but credit where it’s due, standing up to Israeli Genocide is the only morally correct choice.

  • couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip
    16·
    3 天前

    So, does he mean he’s going to send warships into Israel’s territorial waters?

    What’s his plan when they get sunk?

    • BeatL@pawb.social
      91·
      3 天前

      To reach palestine, you will have to cross European waters (where the flotilla starts like france)

      THEN international water (the place no one have jurisdiction over yet Israel assieged unarmed ships carrying humanitarian aid)

      THEN reach Palestinian water to deliver aids. See that was always the plan

      Wow, you can do so much without WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING CROSSING ON ISRAEL TERRITORY NOT THAT IT MATTER ANYWAY.

      Sorry, i know you are confused and smarter than that. I do not like Melanchon either. Yeah he is too soft with russia and china, yeah no he will not fix everything. People of power do not fix things, they are the problem… YET for French, europeans and worlds is a step in the right direction and needed breathing room on minorities and majority of peoples.

      He is not the solution, no one is the solution for everyone in every time. He certainly is not perfect. He must be criticized but boy oh boy, the opposition is turbo-fascist-mass-deportation, friends of war mongering rich tyrants, Peoples convicted of embezzlement of funds, etc, etc, etc.

        • BeatL@pawb.social
          1·
          21 小时前

          “Not that it matter” in the sense that israel do not respect international law (i mean obviously genocide, equality between human, etc) In this specific case, they DID NOT DEFEND THEIR TERRITORY. It was not even Palestinian water they consider (wrongly) as their territory. It was INTERNATIONAL water.

          So Israel army boarded multiple European civilians ships on neutral territory.

          • They did not defend themselves as it was not threatening
          • They did not have the right to do so as it was neutral territory
          • They kidnapped and tortured citizens in blatant violation of every rule.
          • The fucking genocide

          War have been declared for so much less. I do not want war at all. But wtf ???

          I am seriously thinking, how one could see such an act and think. “it is normal” or “they are justified” If it is your thinking, could you enlighten me? Is it hate against yourself and others ? Is it desensitization? Is it the feeling of powerlessness? Is it that you need to protect yourself from the media onslaught of shit ? I am pretty sure i am not crazy, so what happened to you ?

          As Disturbed put it out :

          “Tell me now, who taught you how to hate? 'cause it isn’t in your blood Not a part of what you’re made So let this be understood Somebody taught you how to hate When you live this way, you become Dead to everyone”

          • couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip
            12·
            20 小时前

            Well I’m not even talking about justified or not.

            It’s just that if you sail your ship to Gaza the exact same thing will happen as what would happen if you’d sail to any other nation that’s on edge: you’ll get a warning, then a warning shot, and then they’ll try to sink you.

            If you really plan to order your navy to do that maybe it’s better to have thought a tad further ahead than “It’S jUsTiFieD!!!11”

    • ElectricVocalist@jlai.lu
      111·
      3 天前

      Le Pen is hated by everyone. She receives tremendous support by the media owned by her friends but that won’t get her votes. Even supporters from her own party prefer the younger candidate she is in conflict with. She will lose, by far. Mélenchon worries more about other right candidates