PleasantPeasant [none/use name]

I would say my impression is similar about DSA having an internal struggle between reformists and social liberals. I do not have a ton of hope about the reformists winning with how much momentum DSA right is getting from these electoral wins.

and I’m glad you found the article/speech interesting

we are very much agreeing! I just saw an opportunity to post that article because I thought it was relevant to the discussion, and I have often seen debates about DSA and what not use very imprecise/inaccurate language to call them reformists when often times we are criticizing the social liberal faction in actuality.

There is no reform vs revolution debate

This is pretty much the reasoning behind why it would be good for actual reformists to have a resurgence, even if we know it’s not enough the framing of reform vs revolution is a lot better for us than this environment where social liberalism* remains king.

*i think people often use this interchangeably with socdem/succdem, but people also use socdem to mean an actual reformist occasionally too so I kind of like using social liberalism like in the speech

for an example of an actual reformist the author/speaker (apparently this is a transcript of a speech, i have never noticed despite reading the essay a few times before lol) chose Hugo Chavez, which i think maps well with this distinction between genuine electoralist and a reformist who is actually willing to change their tactics.

https://redsails.org/esquerda-reformista/

it’s not even reformism, it’s associating socialism with social liberalism (which i know you are basically saying with your second paragraph but I already brought this essay up later on down the thread so I wanted to post here too)

@free_casc@hexbear.net @Chana@hexbear.net @purpleworm@hexbear.net

I think a useful essay for this discussion is https://redsails.org/esquerda-reformista/

the gist of the essay (although I really recommend reading the whole thing if you’ve never read it before) is that so often we are mixing up reformists vs social liberals and it’s important to clarify which we are actually fighting against. basically free_casc, I would say sicksemper, chana, and purpleleworm are all arguing that DSA is social liberal rather than reformist as a whole, and you don’t even really seem to disagree? correct me if I’m wrong, but you would want us to potentially support the reformists if they gain more prominence in the future, not because reform > revolution, but because we need the “left” to actually become reform vs revolution instead of this social liberalism dominance we see today. Or at least, that is the conclusion from the essay’s author, who shares your idea that we need to sharpen our analysis/language

I often joke that if what is understood as the “majority left” in Brazil was reformist, that would be a good thing! If that were the case, we’d be discussing fundamental questions and contradictions. But we are not. Therefore, a fundamental task for those trying to understand and communicate about the political crisis in Brazil is to adapt our political language. We have to stop calling those who are social liberals reformists. The correct understanding of the Brazilian left today is that Marxists and reformists are a minority, and face together a very large social liberal camp.

Glauber Braga, a radicalized reformist, is in the minority. [6] He is a minority in his own party, he is a minority in the Brazilian parliament, and he is a minority in the Brazilian progressive camp. He is a serious reformer, consistent, honest and so on. It would be great if we had 30 or 40 Glauber Bragas in the Chamber of Deputies! But we don’t. This is why I put forward this subject for debate. We have to sharpen our language and our political analysis. What we face is a left dominated by social liberals. [7] Against this majority, reformists, like revolutionaries, remain a minority.

this kind of thing is why i think it’s kinda silly when people accuse platner of being a plant. nah man i think he’s just a homicidal complete dumbass

You can’t just embrace wildly reactionary trends because they are currently popular, that’s not a basis for a socialist movement and in fact works toward the detriment of such a movement, serving instead to entrench those reactionary trends and to muddy your actual platform.

it’s even worse because hasan has actually shown himself to be willing to do this over gaza/palestine, he lost a big chunk of his audience for awhile over it and yet he’s unwilling to do so again to go against the troop worship in this country for whatever reason

for the succdems

what? if he drops out dems are gonna put some turbo zionist coporate dem in as their choice of candidate, there’s no dsa candidate

i cant rightly fully celebrate this. I’m skeptical of dsa and nydsa especially, but i will always laugh at the suffering of the “centrist” corporate backed democrats who i assume are crying tears of blood over this lmao

im not saying it’s great but there is a big difference between the claim in the doc and “PSL higher ups are monitoring their members with AI”

anyways again i would really like to see receipts on this stuff from anyone involved

and even the development of an AI-powered system to monitor members.

@Parzivus@hexbear.net im not sure that is a totally accurate description of this, this is the actual quote from the doc

Currently the NOD is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars employing highly skilled software developers to create an AI-powered app to compile comprehensive reports from all areas of the Party for the top leadership circle without having to deal with time-consuming personal engagement with branch leaders

this reads to me more as trying to summarize large reports that branch leaders give out, and again this is all he-said-she-said stuff, has anyone even seen receipts from either side? although, it is weird that the supposed central committee response didnt respond to that accusation at all

where did this first quote come from, “internal authoritarianism” is libshit but not in either of your 2 links

that pet peeve aside, the doc is quite concerning, but supposedly the central committee sent out a response that you can see here: https://clarion.unity-struggle-unity.org/2026-06-16-the-psl-letters/ (note that USU has been opposed to the PSL for a long time so I wouldnt 100% trust this response unless someone has a different source)

the response just makes this seem like more of the same infighting we’ve seen in socialist parties for centuries, and tbh i have no clue how to decide who is telling the truth, because PSL is very opaque in how it operates afaict

ty lol

KEIKO FUJIMORI (FAR-RIGHT): 50.001% (+ 0.01%) - 9.029.363 votes
ROBERTO SANCHEZ (LEFTIST): 49.999% (- 0.01%) - 9.029.956 votes

??? are they from a different universe where percentages are calculated differently or are the vote totals wrong?

^{(leaving this here because top level meta comments are frowned upon now i believe)}

does the war just not matter to anyone anymore? like we had 100+ comment last week over a succdem mayor and yet an exchange of bombing bigger than anything else since the “ceasefire” is getting like 0 activity

they dont even touch your genitals for the hernia check i dont understand what the big deal is

american. in my annual checkups there was never any “fiddling” with my genitals, doctor would just check for hernia by asking me to do that cough thing while pressing on my groin but there was no touching of genitals and i dont even remember ever having to pull my pants/underwear down far enough to where the doctor could even see my genitals

…why is the empire so determined to blow itself up, in what universe is that a good idea

so what is different about this compared to before? did you have to put like 25k to use an app like robinhood or does this mean you dont need an app anymore (or something else like this?)