At this point the word incel has basically multiple meanings. It can be a legitimate state of being (in fact the person who came up with the term was a woman) or a knee-jerk insult. It’s basically just like the term tankie.
Yeah I know who he is. He actually had trouble with women even though he had backstage passes as a writing for rolling stone magazine. It wasn’t until after he learned the dating skills that he was able to be better with women.
This whole struggle session has made it crystal clear that the west is pretty much guaranteed to descend into fascism. A lot of people basically seem to knee-jerk dismiss concerns people have about being in the friend zone, and without a legitimate leftist response to this, tons of alienated young men are going to find their way to reactionary figures and basically become the foot soldiers of fascism. There needs to be more concrete help for these alienated guys other than saying “it’s all capitalism’s fault that you feel that way” or saying “oh you even mention the friend zone? tHaT mEaNs YoU’rE aN iNcEl!” I mean yes capitalism has really alienated us and commodified dating but that’s not gonna help the lonely guy who gets rejected all the time other than in an intellectual way. Also telling him that “you should just be content with life” is also not helpful either. I mean yeah you can be all Buddhist about it but would you say that to other disenfranchised people as well? “Hey sorry about the discrimination but it’s better to just be content with life.” Is this what an AES nation would do? Sounds like some idealist western shit rather than a principled materialist approach that takes into account the realities on the ground. The USSR industrialized, developed, and got rid of cyclical famines. China lifted millions out of poverty. They didn’t just say “it’s capitalism’s fault that you’re homeless” and then just leave it at that, they actually did concrete stuff. There needs to be concrete action done to deal with this issue other than mockery/dunking or simple platitudes like “hey just be yourself and be content.”
Anyways, like I’ve said before, the west is doomed.
I’m sure there was some there but it was mostly just guys who had gotten rejected a lot trying to figure out how to be more confident, dress better, and learn how to talk to women. Later on people started to mix politics in with it (i.e. “women are only like this cuz of feminism, liberalism, etc.”)
To my fellow guys, there is nothing more pathetic than being an “orbiter” that stays friends with a women in the vague hope that they change their minds and want a romantic relationship with you.
I’ve been flamed for comments that get widespread support a few weeks later.
Looks like that happened in this very thread lol. I see comments now that basically mirror what I said earlier in the thread’s history.
I like the idea of a dating coach.
That’s essentially what the PUAs from the 2000s were. It was only towards the end of the 2000s and the early 2010s that you started to see that stuff morph into the “manosphere” and “red pill” stuff you see today.
I mean I guess, but… I hate to use this term, but I think the therapist is only going to give you “blue pill” advice like “be yourself” or other useless platitudes. Unless the therapist has themselves dealt with this and somehow conquered it, I highly doubt a therapist would help.
That, and being with someone is also a leftist, sympathetic to your political views, or at least apolitical but cool if you want to do praxis or occasionally rant about stuff like how capitalism evolved out of feudalism is pretty dang important.
So I’m kind of torn on this, because of how I keep hearing about romantic relationships causing orgs to basically implode. It’s like there are so few leftists that when people meet in an org it becomes desperate people meeting other desperate people and basically forgetting the whole point of the org.
I guess if I had any dating advice, it would be to ignore generic dating advice and try and have people in your life (friends, family, even exes) who know you well and will be brutally honest with you.
I don’t know, in my experience they’ll never be brutally honest with you. Actually, they may not even know what to tell you in the first place and they may actually think that you’re “a catch” so to speak and “who wouldn’t want to date you!” I actually think hiring a dating coach might not be a bad idea, because they can assess you and actually give you good advice. And it would be specifically tailored to you.
I do have a friend who does only date assholes, it’s very sad and she says so. They have done things like break her arm, break into her house after they’d broken up and steal all of her knives etc. It’s actually a repeated pattern in her relationships that strikes me as pathological.
Yeah that’s the thing, you don’t have to give into the incel mindset to notice this kind pattern.
That said, the incel/“nice guy” vibe is defining asshole as “someone who is more confident than me”.
Yeah, although I do think that the “asshole” and the “nice guy” are two sides of the same coin (both toxic but in different ways; one more overt and the other covert). Actual confident/good guys often get mistaken as “assholes” simply cuz they have the confidence, like you said.
Did you secretly like them or did you admit it? And did they secretly know or only know after you admitted it?
It hurts to be previously friends with someone who gives you the cold shoulder once they find out you don’t want to fuck them.
I guess in that case there was never really a friendship to begin with.
but this would definitely burn bridges.
I guess I should clarified that this is more of something you’d say in the beginning, not too long after meeting someone.
You’re basically giving them them an ultimatum to date you or cut off contact.
I mean I see it more as you know who you are and are setting boundaries for yourself. If the other person insists on being friends while knowing that you are into them, I see that as kind of manipulative, because you’re kind of pressuring the person with the feelings to make a decision to stay in an awkward situation.
A system is a brain with multiple people in it.
So like multiple personality?
You obviously (I say obviously but from what I’ve heard…) shouldn’t keep asking for a date or a job interview.
Actually that reminds me of something slightly related. It always seems like back in the day guys would ask a girl out like ten times before she finally said yes. I always hear stories from older couples like “he asked me out 20 times before I said yes and we’ve been happily married for 60 years!” But nowadays persistence is seen as being creepy in dating, although it’s kind of still promoted in sales, business, etc.
A squish is a persistent feeling of platonic attraction to someone. It’s the platonic equivalent of a crush. When I’m around someone I have a squish on, I’m excited and happy to be near them. With time and familiarity, these feelings usually fade and get replaced with platonic love, which is the foundation of a good friendship.
Ah I see
Introjection is when a system creates a member with an identity based on an external source. These sources are usually fictional characters, which results in system members called fictives, but there are also factives, which are members based on a factional source.
Ok I’m completely lost here. I don’t know what a system is. And I take it factional source is a real source, as opposed to fiction?
what societal change do you think needs to occur about this issue?
Maybe reverse the trend of turning dating into a commodified market for one. Apps like Tinder have really made looks be the sole factor in whether you even want to talk to someone. It’s become so gamified that we essentially treat potential partners as some kind of stock investment. Also the digital world has really isolated us and we rarely even talk to people anymore except through text or instagram. I think electronic communication is great (I mean here I am commenting on hexbear) but not at the expense of real life contact (hence the “touch grass” meme). Maybe have community centers that actually appeal to people? I dunno, perhaps we need to look at what the Soviets and other cultures do to help people meet each other (https://youtu.be/teZw4-trPuE?feature=shared).
So I must be out of the loop here, what’s a squish? What’s introjecting? Never heard of those terms before
You can logically know something, and behave accordingly, even if your feelings are different.
I think that may sound good in theory, but in practice emotions really fuck with us. So if one is trying to assess how to best proceed, there needs to be an honest accounting on the strength and frequency of these feelings. It’s almost like a calculated risk to be honest. You need to really know yourself. If you think you can do it then yeah good for you, but I think in our current environment it might just create more danger to the women because they may not know who is honestly trying to be friends and who is “just trying to get in” under the guise of friendship. Maybe this analogy isn’t that good, but it’s almost like job hunting, if you get rejected I suppose you can try to “follow up and keep trying” but it’s better to move on (and I fully acknowledge that dating isn’t transactional like a job but it still kind of is a “market” for lack of a better term).
That seems essentialistic.
??? What are you talking about?