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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: June 19th, 2023

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  • My cousin or my best friend or myself who might be gay or lesbian, any store they walk in they might get discriminated against because the Supreme Court says it’s OK

    This is irresponsibly wrong, and I’m really surprised this is what you hear on a national network.

    Breaking it down:

    • The Supreme Court found that a Colorado law would violate the First Amendment as it’s currently written
    • The law says that businesses cannot deny any service to members of a protected class based on their membership in that class
    • The business owner in question offers services that involve creating expressive works (protected by 1A)
    • The Court found that Colorado cannot prohibit the owner from refusing to create an expressive work with a message they disagree with.

    Here’s what the Court did NOT find:

    • Business can deny service to any person because they’re LGBTQA.
      • This was not the question before the court, and in fact the business owner in this case stipulated that she already does not deny service to anyone based on their membership in a protected group.
    • Businesses can refuse to create an expressive work for any person because they’re LGBTQA
      • It’s not the fact that the person is gay, but that the message of the requested work is objectionable to the owner. Colorado cannot compel expression, per the Constitution.

    And yet Van Jones is out here embarrassing himself and misinforming people who are LOOKING for a reason to be angry. Be angry about the facts, if you must be angry about anything.


  • TBH I’m having a really tough time with this one. I’m not a lawyer, but there are competing Constitutional interests here:

    • the state government wants to protect its citizens from discrimination by businesses within the state, which is a power it has (limited by federal law and the Constitution)
      • Importantly, it is NOT a violation of the couple’s constitutional rights if the business refuses to serve them because they’re gay. That’s why the state law exists, because there’s nothing covering this at the federal level.
    • But in this case, the service is also a form of expression/speech by the vendor, which (religious or not) is constitutionally protected.
      • If the business in question was a plumber, there’s no question the state law would apply; plumbing is not a constitutionally-protected activity.

    So we have a state law compelling speech-based services from businesses in scenarios where the client is a member of a protected class as defined by the law. Who wins?

    Keep in mind that the same decision also controls the hypothetical-but-plausible situation where the business owner is a person who supports LGBT rights, and who doesn’t want to design a website extolling the exclusive virtues of a Christian heterosexual lifestyle for some highly religious prospective clients.

    Of course a buck is a buck, and some designers would take that job because they wanted the money. But should they be compelled to make that site? I wouldn’t think so, personally!

    So that’s a tricky angle. There’s also the edge cases.

    • Can a printing business refuse to print a poster design by someone else on their printers if they don’t like the message of the poster? Probably not, because the service doesn’t fit as easily into the speech/expression category
    • What about a sign painter who doesn’t write the text itself, just stylizes it? Is the creative expression still linked to the message?





  • Now, I get it. No one wants to feel like they actually voted for the conservative outcomes

    This is projection. Can you conceive of someone with slightly different political values than yourself?

    A half-measure at best, and you know it, because as with everything they do, we only have bipartisan support if the wealthy get the lion’s share of the money. That’s how it was with Obamacare and COVID relief. It’s what they do.

    This is how you debate? “I’m right because politician bad”? Cite a source or two.

    That totally matters in a country where marriage policies exist mostly at the state level

    lol, with the small exceptions of my own tax bill and federal benefits.

    and the Supreme Court has already admitted they’re gunning for gay marriage next.

    Right…in which case federal recognition becomes critically important.


  • Confident doomsaying is always easy and popular on politics threads, and I just don’t buy it here. Before the 2022 midterms, commentators were just as confident that the economy (and inflation!) would hand the GOP a huge victory in Congress. Didn’t happen.

    Biden’s done exactly what he said he would, which is to focus on and fight for laws and measures that have a chance of passing the US Congress. Hard to argue with his strategy.

    On the economy:

    • Consumer prices are up ~15%, not 30 and especially not 50… The twelve month change as of January 2023 was 6.4%.
    • The US has 3 million more jobs than before the pandemic, and 1.7 job openings per unemployed job seeker.

    Legislative record:

    • A trillion dollar infrastructure deal with bipartisan support
    • A federal gun control bill with bipartisan support
    • A bill that finally recognizes same-sex and interracial marriage at the federal level. Passed the Senate with 12 Republican “yes” votes.