So the part I don’t get is how a lot of these countries end up with the same leaders for life? You think if they were so democratic that they’d change out occasionally. I know the USSR changed leaders a few times after Stalin and not sure what’s happening with Cuba now, I think they just put in term limits, but before that there was Stalin for decades, Fidel Castro for decades, Mao, now Xi Jinping, etc. Keeping one leader for that long gives an opportunity for them to centralize power.
The structure of the system generally results in a meritocratic (actually serious) result. Everyone in the system has started at the lowest council level, and then at each council they have been voted up based on actual ability to produce results to represent that council at the next tier. This process of each council selecting someone to represent the council at the next tier up continues all the way to the supreme congress.
Think of it this way… If you put a thousand extremely competent highly skilled carpenters in a room together and ask them to select the best person among them for the job, they’re going to select someone who is an incredible master. Now wait 4 years and ask yourself whether they’re going to select a different person, is someone else going to magically be a better master carpenter? Not likely. Quantity of experience plays a large role in ability, and the person with the highest quantity of that experience is still that master.
Stalin, was one of the most effective administrators of any government in history. This is just a simple fact, as leader he took a country without industry, a feudal backwater with no technology that was still doing horse-and-cart agriculture let alone any kind of industrial production, and in his time they defeated the nazis and literally went to space… in under 40 years. Mao? Mao was a hero revolutionary, the leader that freed the country. The average life expectancy was 33 when he started the revolution, and it was 60 when he died. This man has been villified to an absolutely ridiculous degree when literally any metric of comparison (before/after the revolution) you use demonstrates why he was kept. Were there dumb mistakes? Yes. But even with some mistakes things like ending the practice of foot-binding which affected near 50% of all working class women and 100% of all rich women is all-by-itself justification for Mao, without anything else. Castro falls into a similar boat, he was a hero revolutionary, brought incredible levels of improvement to his people, and not only was he seen as a hero but he was charismatic as fuck, watch any video of him and he’s immediately likeable, even when he aged the man’s earnestness and softness shines through.
As for Xi. He’s only in a third term and his total time in the role is only at 10 years lmao. That’s not even notable. The last Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel was in her role for 16 years. Tony fucking Blair was PM of the UK for 12 years. I can’t take Americans seriously when they talk about this shit when he’s not even past well known leaders of my own country.
I also worry that so many representative layers dilutes the people’s will from the bottom to the top, but to be honest, I have no idea of that’s true or just a gut feeling. I’d have to see some study, like the one that showed that popular will doesn’t seem to affect whether something happens in the US unless rich people are also for it lol.
There is a 3rd party Harvard study worth a read here on the Chinese system, it’s the longest study of its kind (30 years long), independent, and can’t be regarded as biased in favour of China (the opposite actually). It finds that 95% of the population support the government, it finds that they support the government because it has consistently improved their lives, and it finds that it’s not because of “widespread propaganda” but because of real actual changes in their material lives.
The Chinese system produces results that reflect what the people actually want, partially because of one single policy - any constituency can remove its representative with a simple majority vote. I want you to consider what absolute fucking mayhem that policy would enable if it existed in your own country. How often would the local politician be getting campaigns to remove them for doing things the people don’t want/like? If that policy existed right now in most western countries we could be getting rid of 90% of the politicians for their support for Israel and genocide. The very existence of this policy enforces an enormous pressure upon the representatives to actually represent the people - or else.
Contrast this study with studies you’ve seen of western democracies all having less than 50% support.
Don’t get me wrong about this, I have criticisms too. I don’t particularly like how slow the system is at bringing about cultural change, lgbt issues have moved slow as fuck toward improvement (improving more than the US which is going backwards right now) because old people are a bunch of homophobic bastards that slow the process of change down. Cuba is an exception to this because Mariela Castro, one of Fidel’s family, took it upon herself to change things including changing the views of Fidel who later regretted and apologised for the mistakes of early homophobia in the country. I think it’s likely that without the involvement of Castro himself the movement would have stalled or been slow there. Right now Cuba is the most progressive country in the world, with the most progressive laws for lgbt people as a result of their reforming of the family law in recent years. For reference, I am lgbt myself.
Interesting stuff. Being able to recall representatives sounds amazing. I wish the US had that. Although the UK and Australia have something similar to that Iirc and it’s just lead to them speed running through prime ministers lol. Wonder what the difference there is.
Cultural issues do seem to be the weak point of this kind of populist policy making, because it’s easy to convince the rmajority to hate some minority. Not sure what the solution to that is besides including strong protections in the initial Constitution of a state.
In liberal parliamentary systems like the UK (I am cursed to live here) it’s just a vote of no confidence in government. It can only be performed by the elected MPs of the party currently sitting in government. It’s happening frequently because FPTP voting has caused too many different political groups to join one party despite having views that would cause them to be in different parties in other countries. This results in very frequent governmental splits and rebellions. Unfortunately we have no such powers to change representatives.
Cultural issues do seem to be the weak point of this kind of populist policy making, because it’s easy to convince the rmajority to hate some minority. Not sure what the solution to that is besides including strong protections in the initial Constitution of a state.
It certainly is a weakpoint, but it’s also important to note that it will resolve itself in the longterm. The cultural change is happening in the young people and the older generations will filter out. The change is inevitable. Most importantly things like transgender clinics for children are now being built all over because their state actually follows scientific advice strictly. When I say things there are heading in the right direction I also firmly believe here in the UK and the US we are heading in completely the opposite direction. That’s not something liberals even want to resolve either given how little opposition they mount to anything.
Another thing to note is that abortion in the US has gone backwards, with no federal opposition at all, and only token gestures from the liberals. This while under their government. That shit is never ever going to happen in China. The direction of this kind of change is firmly in ONE direction, despite the west’s best efforts to provoke foreign countries into homophobia via western homonationalism. That shit has been quite successful at turning other capitalist countries more homophobic and anti-lgbt though.
I forgot that it had to be done by MP’s in their own party. Ya, that is a big difference. You have my condolences about the UK lol. They’re looking more and more like the US these days.
I hope you’re right that it changes as the generations move forward! I’m also hoping social media makes a difference. I know it also puts people in their own bubbles, but I could also see it allowing people to get exposed to different types of people. If you’re an LGBTQ person, the only one in your small town or village for example, you can connect with others and see that you’re not so strange. Hell, because of the internet, my eyes have opened to the Israel-Palestine conflict recently, something I never cared about in 2018, 2015, or any year prior, thinking it was too complicated. Now I’m arguing about it all over the place, looking up what places to boycott and shit. Changes is always possible.
I guess we won’t truly know until we see how time passes in places like China or Vietnam. And we have to hope rich people don’t invent an immortality portion like they keep trying to lol.
I hope you’re right that it changes as the generations move forward! I’m also hoping social media makes a difference. I know it also puts people in their own bubbles, but I could also see it allowing people to get exposed to different types of people. If you’re an LGBTQ person, the only one in your small town or village for example, you can connect with others and see that you’re not so strange. Hell, because of the internet, my eyes have opened to the Israel-Palestine conflict recently, something I never cared about in 2018, 2015, or any year prior, thinking it was too complicated. Now I’m arguing about it all over the place, looking up what places to boycott and shit. Changes is always possible.
I’ve spent the last 15 years being called a tankie (a label I don’t care about but the other side thinks it’s a slur or something) and an antisemite for relentlessly fighting for Palestine. Since you’re freshly out of the liberal bubble, did you know Nelson Mandela was a communist? Liberals love to invoke Mandela while mis-educating people on his actual beliefs. If you have any doubts about your support for Palestine, revisit the words he gave in his 1993 visit to Gaza.
Lenin gave us this little passage describing the phenomenon of Liberals to steal and deradicalise heroes from the left:
During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.
Applies to MLK, Mandela, Einstein, even Malcolm X to a lesser extent. And countless others.
And we have to hope rich people don’t invent an immortality portion like they keep trying to lol.
Won’t save them from China lmaoooo all-time billionaire execution record holders.
The structure of the system generally results in a meritocratic (actually serious) result. Everyone in the system has started at the lowest council level, and then at each council they have been voted up based on actual ability to produce results to represent that council at the next tier. This process of each council selecting someone to represent the council at the next tier up continues all the way to the supreme congress.
Think of it this way… If you put a thousand extremely competent highly skilled carpenters in a room together and ask them to select the best person among them for the job, they’re going to select someone who is an incredible master. Now wait 4 years and ask yourself whether they’re going to select a different person, is someone else going to magically be a better master carpenter? Not likely. Quantity of experience plays a large role in ability, and the person with the highest quantity of that experience is still that master.
Stalin, was one of the most effective administrators of any government in history. This is just a simple fact, as leader he took a country without industry, a feudal backwater with no technology that was still doing horse-and-cart agriculture let alone any kind of industrial production, and in his time they defeated the nazis and literally went to space… in under 40 years. Mao? Mao was a hero revolutionary, the leader that freed the country. The average life expectancy was 33 when he started the revolution, and it was 60 when he died. This man has been villified to an absolutely ridiculous degree when literally any metric of comparison (before/after the revolution) you use demonstrates why he was kept. Were there dumb mistakes? Yes. But even with some mistakes things like ending the practice of foot-binding which affected near 50% of all working class women and 100% of all rich women is all-by-itself justification for Mao, without anything else. Castro falls into a similar boat, he was a hero revolutionary, brought incredible levels of improvement to his people, and not only was he seen as a hero but he was charismatic as fuck, watch any video of him and he’s immediately likeable, even when he aged the man’s earnestness and softness shines through.
As for Xi. He’s only in a third term and his total time in the role is only at 10 years lmao. That’s not even notable. The last Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel was in her role for 16 years. Tony fucking Blair was PM of the UK for 12 years. I can’t take Americans seriously when they talk about this shit when he’s not even past well known leaders of my own country.
There is a 3rd party Harvard study worth a read here on the Chinese system, it’s the longest study of its kind (30 years long), independent, and can’t be regarded as biased in favour of China (the opposite actually). It finds that 95% of the population support the government, it finds that they support the government because it has consistently improved their lives, and it finds that it’s not because of “widespread propaganda” but because of real actual changes in their material lives.
The Chinese system produces results that reflect what the people actually want, partially because of one single policy - any constituency can remove its representative with a simple majority vote. I want you to consider what absolute fucking mayhem that policy would enable if it existed in your own country. How often would the local politician be getting campaigns to remove them for doing things the people don’t want/like? If that policy existed right now in most western countries we could be getting rid of 90% of the politicians for their support for Israel and genocide. The very existence of this policy enforces an enormous pressure upon the representatives to actually represent the people - or else.
Contrast this study with studies you’ve seen of western democracies all having less than 50% support.
Don’t get me wrong about this, I have criticisms too. I don’t particularly like how slow the system is at bringing about cultural change, lgbt issues have moved slow as fuck toward improvement (improving more than the US which is going backwards right now) because old people are a bunch of homophobic bastards that slow the process of change down. Cuba is an exception to this because Mariela Castro, one of Fidel’s family, took it upon herself to change things including changing the views of Fidel who later regretted and apologised for the mistakes of early homophobia in the country. I think it’s likely that without the involvement of Castro himself the movement would have stalled or been slow there. Right now Cuba is the most progressive country in the world, with the most progressive laws for lgbt people as a result of their reforming of the family law in recent years. For reference, I am lgbt myself.
Interesting stuff. Being able to recall representatives sounds amazing. I wish the US had that. Although the UK and Australia have something similar to that Iirc and it’s just lead to them speed running through prime ministers lol. Wonder what the difference there is.
Cultural issues do seem to be the weak point of this kind of populist policy making, because it’s easy to convince the rmajority to hate some minority. Not sure what the solution to that is besides including strong protections in the initial Constitution of a state.
In liberal parliamentary systems like the UK (I am cursed to live here) it’s just a vote of no confidence in government. It can only be performed by the elected MPs of the party currently sitting in government. It’s happening frequently because FPTP voting has caused too many different political groups to join one party despite having views that would cause them to be in different parties in other countries. This results in very frequent governmental splits and rebellions. Unfortunately we have no such powers to change representatives.
It certainly is a weakpoint, but it’s also important to note that it will resolve itself in the longterm. The cultural change is happening in the young people and the older generations will filter out. The change is inevitable. Most importantly things like transgender clinics for children are now being built all over because their state actually follows scientific advice strictly. When I say things there are heading in the right direction I also firmly believe here in the UK and the US we are heading in completely the opposite direction. That’s not something liberals even want to resolve either given how little opposition they mount to anything.
Another thing to note is that abortion in the US has gone backwards, with no federal opposition at all, and only token gestures from the liberals. This while under their government. That shit is never ever going to happen in China. The direction of this kind of change is firmly in ONE direction, despite the west’s best efforts to provoke foreign countries into homophobia via western homonationalism. That shit has been quite successful at turning other capitalist countries more homophobic and anti-lgbt though.
I forgot that it had to be done by MP’s in their own party. Ya, that is a big difference. You have my condolences about the UK lol. They’re looking more and more like the US these days.
I hope you’re right that it changes as the generations move forward! I’m also hoping social media makes a difference. I know it also puts people in their own bubbles, but I could also see it allowing people to get exposed to different types of people. If you’re an LGBTQ person, the only one in your small town or village for example, you can connect with others and see that you’re not so strange. Hell, because of the internet, my eyes have opened to the Israel-Palestine conflict recently, something I never cared about in 2018, 2015, or any year prior, thinking it was too complicated. Now I’m arguing about it all over the place, looking up what places to boycott and shit. Changes is always possible.
I guess we won’t truly know until we see how time passes in places like China or Vietnam. And we have to hope rich people don’t invent an immortality portion like they keep trying to lol.
I’ve spent the last 15 years being called a tankie (a label I don’t care about but the other side thinks it’s a slur or something) and an antisemite for relentlessly fighting for Palestine. Since you’re freshly out of the liberal bubble, did you know Nelson Mandela was a communist? Liberals love to invoke Mandela while mis-educating people on his actual beliefs. If you have any doubts about your support for Palestine, revisit the words he gave in his 1993 visit to Gaza.
Lenin gave us this little passage describing the phenomenon of Liberals to steal and deradicalise heroes from the left:
Applies to MLK, Mandela, Einstein, even Malcolm X to a lesser extent. And countless others.
Won’t save them from China lmaoooo all-time billionaire execution record holders.