People Are Okay With Wind & Solar Installations In Their Neighborhoods, Studies Say::More neighborhoods than ever are accepting the role of solar and wind power installations near their homes and towns.

    • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Widespread personal installations won’t be sustainable in most situations. Instead, we should be working to create microgrids for higher resiliency and more efficient electricity transmission. While we’re at it, geothermal heat pumps should be installed in a similar microgrid method for more efficient energy consumption

        • Jako301@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          It makes grid planing an absolut nightmare. We need to overbuild by a lot so a few days with less wind and sun doesn’t lead to blackouts. Big windparks can be turned off reliably if there is too much energy produced, but the same can’t be said for personal installations.

          While it’s possible to disconnect personal solar cells from the grid by increasing the frequency a bit, you can’t just do that if the village is still connected to the entire grid. You first have to switch the whole village manually into island mode. Not to mention that a lot of times they don’t restart automatically.

        • teamonkey@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          As I understand it, the efficiency of a wind turbine increases with blade size, so multiple smaller personal wind turbines are less efficient than fewer, larger turbines that serve a neighbourhood, as well as costing much more and using more overall resources.

        • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          They’re just isn’t enough roof area/roof space per person in dense urban settings. Not by a long shot.

            • bitcrafter@lemmy.sdf.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Nice parks are one of the amenities that can be put in a “15 minute city”; the nicest city I’ve ever lived in, Brisbane (in Queensland, Australia), had beautiful large parks within easy access of the downtown areas.

              By contrast, currently I live in a suburb, but it doesn’t really give me a nature fix when I need it so I have to go to elsewhere anyway.

            • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              You paranoid idiots can shut the fuck up about 15 minutes cities.

              Only the truly gullible are afraid of OTHER PEOPLE having shops within walking distance.

  • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    ·
    1 year ago

    I find both solar panels and wind turbines to be quite beautiful and aesthetic when done at least half well. However turbines do have its issues with noise and shadows so I definitely wouldn’t want one close by.

    • Ashyr@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      My in-laws had a neighbor with a turbine for years and it could get really loud on a windy day. That said if I have to choose between coal and a little noise, I’d still choose the noise.

      • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think the issue with fossil fuels is that their damage is not as apparent as a 100meter tall bird smasher. Thats why this conflict is so complex.

          • erwan@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            There are not as many wind turbines as there are cats in the US. You need some kind of normalization otherwise it’s not telling you what is the impact of installing a new wind turbine farm.

            Also there is a chance that birds killed by cats were already weak and soon to die.

            • Mangosniper@feddit.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              2400000000 / 58000000 ~ 41. 234000 / 70000 ~ 3. If we talking about preserving birds I would still address the cat issue before the wind turbine issue.

              Also there is a chance that birds killed by cats windturbines were already weak and soon to die.

              Don’t take the above sentence seriously. It’s just to show that arguments that seem nice might not hold their value at second glance.

              • bitcrafter@lemmy.sdf.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                If we talking about preserving birds I would still address the cat issue before the wind turbine issue.

                I for one fully support never allowing cats outside unless they have a wind turbine attached to them.

            • onion@feddit.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              But we aren’t planning to install as many wind turbines as there are cats, so you don’t need to directly compare

                • mriguy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  No it isn’t. The rate of birds killed is not important. The NUMBER of birds killed is, and wind turbines are just a rounding error in the number of birds killed. Even if we increased the number of turbines to supply all of the country’s electricity, it would STILL not be anywhere near as many as cats.

          • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I’m not saying turbines are bird smasher. I’m saying that’s what an average person thinks. Also clearly they kill birds which is an exactly the issue. You can see wind turbines damage standing next to it and you can’t see fossil fuel damage unfortunately.

            • Mangosniper@feddit.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              In comparison with the other issues we have, the bird Windturbine one is a non-issue. However, it gets thrown in the ring over and over again, achieving exactly what the people persuing it want: distraction. It’s the same with nuclear, it’s the same with “ but we can’t store the energy“. A lot of decoys to slow down the process while we already have everything we need to take on the problem. Please people, don’t take the bait, focus on implementing the solution.

                • Mangosniper@feddit.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Probably. I still find a lot of people here on Lemmy (and the other fuck you spez platform before) that are very very convinced we need to reroute a substantial amount of our effort into building nuclear reactors as renewables can never ever sustain everything and in general there is no storage.

                  But you are right in general.

          • Jelly_mcPB@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            There’s only 70,000 wind turbins, and 58,000,000 cats. Say, do you live in a building with glass?

            • Mangosniper@feddit.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              Uhm… 2400000000 / 58000000 ~ 41. 234000 / 70000 ~ 3. If we talking about preserving birds I would still address the cat issue before the wind turbine issue.

  • BlackPenguins@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    23
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I’m shocked people are fine with clean windmills and solar panels near their home and not dirty coal plants. If anything seeing clean energy just makes you think of a rich neighborhood just like a Tesla would.

    Solar Plants were always the most expensive option in Sim City. Coal was the cheapest. It’s been engrained in us since our childhood.

  • Obinice@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    1 year ago

    People in the USA* pretty big detail to leave out of the title, this isn’t a global study.

    I’m not from there but I wouldn’t have any problem with such installations as long as they’re done tastefully, so as to not affect the beauty of the land any more than what’s essential. Renewables are the way forward after all!

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Nuclear fission is at a dead end. Long history of going overbudget and overschedule. SMRs are several years away from being proven, if they fullfill their promise at all; fission is littered with The Next Big Thing that ended up being a fart in the wind.

        Fortunately, it’s also unnecessary at this point. Getting to 95% solar/wind/storage is a very achievable goal compared to getting to 100%, and that would be huge.

  • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    1 year ago

    HOAs still place restrictions unfortunately. Perhaps not an outright ban in most places, but limited installations and possibly in not the best place on the house for solar production.

      • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        They make sense in communities with shared facilities (pool, playgrounds, walls, roofs, or whatever) and common areas so that everyone helps maintain things. The list of what they get away with should be really, super limited though.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        What a strange take, how do you organize or run the community without it? Everyone just does whatever without any coordination or some other type of model?

        • SybilVane@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          You can have municipal regulations and be free to decide what to do with your own property aside from that. Most of the world does it and things work just fine, with the added benefit of no HOA troubles.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Municipal regulations affecting very small level stuff like that might become a huge clusterfuck. In Finland HOA type stuff is usually seen as good because it gives the option for people to decide stuff about their own immediate area or even just their own apartment building (so more local democracy) and it’s easier to organize a lot of stuff closer to people.

  • cyd@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    This means little. People always say they are okay with it, in the abstract. Then when it’s time to get specific and build an actual wind or solar farm near them, suddenly it’s a big nuisance, harmful to the local ecology, etc.

    • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      A solar farm tried to go up near my S/O’s grandpa. I never realized how some people turn into such awful NIMBYs as soon as you try to do something near their property.

    • zerofk@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Exactly. Every time a new windmill goes up in a residential area around here, there are protests and complaints about the noise, the repetitive shadow, the view, etc.

      • BURN@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Those sound like legitimate complaints. I’d be pissed if the house that I bought ended up a much, much less pleasant place to live because of a 3rd party.

        Windmills don’t belong in residential areas, just as coal power plants don’t, and solar farms in residential areas just seems like a waste of space.

        • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          You do understand that huge swathes of ‘residential’ area aren’t in cities, right? Like rural areas still exist…

          • BURN@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes, and I still believe that if something is dense enough to be considered residential (be it suburbs or not) shouldn’t have wind turbines.

            Truly rural areas are different and should be treated differently. But when referencing “residential” the default is still somewhat densely packed, even if it’s not fully urban.

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    See there’s something interesting in this and every time an article like this comes up it always makes me think about this.

    There is a wind farm going to be constructed near where I live, they send out a bunch of letters telling everybody that we were going to build the wind farm and then that was it. There’s been no public consultation if you had an objection you could email them but I’m not sure what that would do. Perhaps they would hold a consultation if anybody had objected, but nobody has.

    This is the way to do it, public consultations are ridiculous, they just allow NIMBY idiots the opportunity to mess things up for everyone else. If it’s got the proper permits, and the proper environmental investigations have already been conducted, why is it any business of the locals, it’s not like it’s going to cause more traffic.

  • Hucklebee@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Interesting. In my country nobody wants to live next to windmills (I’m from the Netherlands). The sound and even the constant shadows falling over your house is said to be causing mental health issues.

    Mind you, The Netherlands is a very densly populated country.

    I’d say about 30% has solar on their roof though.

    E: here’s a research that had been done by our government: It seems mostly in English, for those that want to read it.

    https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/2020-0150.pdf

    Conclusion seems to be that it cannot be said for certain that the sound of windmills are the sole reason for sleeplessness and mental health problems.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      There’s been a German study and please don’t ask me to find the pdf but the basic comparison was between comparable installations in the north and in the east, major difference between those categories being whether they were owned by a local citizen coop or a big company from whoknowswhere.

      Long story short: If the blade swooshing sounds like “cha-ching” it actually lulls people to sleep, while easterners have rather negative experience with companies from whoknowswhere coming in and suddenly owning stuff. The average is propbably somewhere in the middle, “eh not as nice like a river but way better than a highway in the distance”, focussing only on the sound, not associations with it.

      As to shadowing though yes that can definitely be nasty. Luckily we have the science necessary to predict where the sun will be and can build the windmills such that moving shadow don’t hit homes at all, or only for a minute a couple of days a year or such.

      • Droechai@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Totally unrelated, but which theoretical field would the science of knowing where the shadow falls be? As in, if you can only hire one scholar to do the plans?

        I would say astronomy or geography, but I guess a scholar of photon physics might work?

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          The sun’s position is astronomy the rest is engineering. I guess if you want to go really fancy you could involve horology.

  • Smacks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Not sure if I wanna live next to a wind farm, but solar is 100% okay

    • GlendatheGayWitch@lib.lgbt
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I came across a company called Flower Turbines, they sell tulip-shaped wind turbines. They look nice and hopefully would do well on the energy front. They claim that their turbines start producing energy with just a touch over 1 mph winds.

      It looks like it would be a cute way to generate clean energy.

      https://www.flowerturbines.com/benefits

  • buzz86us@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    All the Hicks out here in upstate NY defeated two of them… one was a wind turbine, the other was a grid battery facility… Which they justified by saying it would start a fire… These were Lithium iron phosphate…

  • Critical_Insight@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Wouldn’t want a solar farm anywhere I wouldn’t want a giant warehouse either. You probably wouldn’t put a warehouse in the middle of residential neighborhood anyways so I don’t think that’s an issue. Plenty of places to put those where people don’t need to be inconvenienced by them.

    Windmills on the other hand I think are cool as fuck. I’ve never actually stood right next to one but people say they’re a bit noisy, so while I might not want one on my yard I sure wouldn’t mind seeing them from the window.

    • tal@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I don’t see why anyone would care about a solar farm. Maybe they have a raging dislike of the aesthetic or something, but whatever.

      Wind turbines, on the other hand, have at least two significant non-aesthetic issues:

      • Noise. This one doesn’t matter if it’s far enough away, but I could see it being a problem if you’re on top of them.

      • Flashing. This was not something that I’d thought about until I read an article that was quoting people who were really upset about it, but it’s actually an interesting problem. You tend to put wind turbines on ridgelines. The problem is that this also means that they cast enormous shadows when the sun is coming up/down. And the shadows that they cast are moving and flash at a rate determined by the rotational speed of the turbine. It’s apparently extremely obnoxious if you’re in the path of the shadow.

  • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I’d be interested to know how many people who say nope to Wind and Solar are just fine with wood burning and chimneys. Which cause the usual problems of breathing burning things, such as death.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    That’s kind of moot for wind though, since most residential neighbourhoods are apparently pretty shit for that. Something to do with the wind being more turbulent because of all the buildings.

    Wind power is best at sea, or maybe in the open countryside (where it’s ugly, but no worse than the massive coal power station I’ve been able to see since I was born).

    Solar? Well some of us lucky enough to live in the right places, or have a roof slanting in the right direction already have that. (Not sure why we’re still building houses facing all sorts of directions with a traditional pointed roof, when we can face them all the same way with a larger, south/north facing section for optimal solar panel placement)

    I doubt a solar farm would bother that many people, they’re low to the ground and have no moving parts. Yeah, ugly I guess, but so are farmer’s fields.