Tbh, even monogatari translated properly is basically gibberish without extensive notes about stuff that simply cant be conveyed directly in a translated script
I wish japanese wasn’t such a useless language to know cause there are some things, like monogatari, that I’d really like to be able to read in original form
It deconstructs language as much as everything else. It’s very tricky. Some things will go over the heads of native speakers (although that’s not really uncommon on TV imo).
I wouldn’t say Japanese is useless. A fair amount of research in some fields is published in Japanese, for example. But I readily admit other languages give you better bang for the study hours
I don’t know too much Mandarin, but I think it makes sense for an Anglophone to study Mandarin to proficiency and then pick up enough Japanese for casual use. The characters make up a good portion of the study requirements, and many are inter-recognizable between the two languages. Also, once you’ve wrapped your brain around Mandarin grammar, I think Japanese grammar should be much easier to approach.
If you ever end up trying to learn it, I might be able to give you some pointers. I’ve got a little experience helping others so feel free to reach out.
I don’t know too much Mandarin, but I think it makes sense for an Anglophone to study Mandarin to proficiency and then pick up enough Japanese for casual use. The characters make up a good portion of the study requirements, and many are inter-recognizable between the two languages. Also, once you’ve wrapped your brain around Mandarin grammar, I think Japanese grammar should be much easier to approach.
As someone who speaks both Chinese and Japanese I’m sorry to say that this plan doesn’t make much sense. Chinese and Japanese grammar are structural opposites, with Chinese being much closer to English word order while Japanese is back to front so to speak. Chinese characters are used in Japanese but many of them look different due to simplification and centuries of linguistic drift. The pronunciations are also very different between the two languages so even if you can kind of guess what certain words mean you won’t be able to verbalize them.
To form a crude comparison, what you proposed is like a Japanese or Chinese person talking about how they’ll learn French first and then pick up German easily because they already know the alphabet.
The pronunciations are different yes, but knowing kanji has allowed me to functionally read many hanzi. The characters are different- especially the simplified characters - but you can recognize the patterns of changes they have gone through. Moreover, having primed your mind on hanzi, you have a solid framework and easy semantic relations for learning kanji.
Learning Mandarin grammar, likewise, is going to be a better background for thinking about how different grammars work. Mandarin has more in common with English structure, yes, but it’s going to be a better basis to work from than, say, any Romance language.
I’m not saying it’s easy, and it doesn’t make sense to learn Mandarin if you’re only interested in Japanese, but I stand by my earlier comment.
I do feel like if I learned Mandarin I’d much more easily justify learning a “just for fun” language like Japanese, so that’s definitely a thought. I’ve actually been keeping my eye open for Chinese classes I can take in my area but the pickings are pretty slim
A lot of my language learning has also come down to what I can “justify.” There just isn’t enough time in the day for one person to justify learning everything.
Definitely keep in mind that both of these languages take a significant amount of time (compared to other languages), at least for monophonic Anglophones. And that, like u/tankidesantski said, the overlap is limited - it’s not at all 1-to-1. It’s not even like Spanish to Italian, etc. Not a good shortcut, but possibly a better justification.
A Turing test for true otaku!
I say let the weebs have their MTL, while I await my sapient AI translator comrades.
Tbh, even monogatari translated properly is basically gibberish without extensive notes about stuff that simply cant be conveyed directly in a translated script
I wish japanese wasn’t such a useless language to know cause there are some things, like monogatari, that I’d really like to be able to read in original form
It deconstructs language as much as everything else. It’s very tricky. Some things will go over the heads of native speakers (although that’s not really uncommon on TV imo).
I wouldn’t say Japanese is useless. A fair amount of research in some fields is published in Japanese, for example. But I readily admit other languages give you better bang for the study hours
I don’t know too much Mandarin, but I think it makes sense for an Anglophone to study Mandarin to proficiency and then pick up enough Japanese for casual use. The characters make up a good portion of the study requirements, and many are inter-recognizable between the two languages. Also, once you’ve wrapped your brain around Mandarin grammar, I think Japanese grammar should be much easier to approach.
If you ever end up trying to learn it, I might be able to give you some pointers. I’ve got a little experience helping others so feel free to reach out.
As someone who speaks both Chinese and Japanese I’m sorry to say that this plan doesn’t make much sense. Chinese and Japanese grammar are structural opposites, with Chinese being much closer to English word order while Japanese is back to front so to speak. Chinese characters are used in Japanese but many of them look different due to simplification and centuries of linguistic drift. The pronunciations are also very different between the two languages so even if you can kind of guess what certain words mean you won’t be able to verbalize them.
To form a crude comparison, what you proposed is like a Japanese or Chinese person talking about how they’ll learn French first and then pick up German easily because they already know the alphabet.
The pronunciations are different yes, but knowing kanji has allowed me to functionally read many hanzi. The characters are different- especially the simplified characters - but you can recognize the patterns of changes they have gone through. Moreover, having primed your mind on hanzi, you have a solid framework and easy semantic relations for learning kanji.
Learning Mandarin grammar, likewise, is going to be a better background for thinking about how different grammars work. Mandarin has more in common with English structure, yes, but it’s going to be a better basis to work from than, say, any Romance language.
I’m not saying it’s easy, and it doesn’t make sense to learn Mandarin if you’re only interested in Japanese, but I stand by my earlier comment.
I do feel like if I learned Mandarin I’d much more easily justify learning a “just for fun” language like Japanese, so that’s definitely a thought. I’ve actually been keeping my eye open for Chinese classes I can take in my area but the pickings are pretty slim
A lot of my language learning has also come down to what I can “justify.” There just isn’t enough time in the day for one person to justify learning everything.
Definitely keep in mind that both of these languages take a significant amount of time (compared to other languages), at least for monophonic Anglophones. And that, like u/tankidesantski said, the overlap is limited - it’s not at all 1-to-1. It’s not even like Spanish to Italian, etc. Not a good shortcut, but possibly a better justification.