I understand your sentiment, but it’s a really difficult situation. I don’t pretend to understand the history but I think I understand that there are a lot of people that believe the very existence of Israel to be illegitimate (and with my limited understanding I tend to agree) but we now have generations of totally innocent people, that despise their government, living there. I don’t have a solution, but I can’t accept that these innocent people have no right to self defence just because they have not yet had the strength to overthrow their government.
The history is rather simple just as the path out. Remove Israel and have a non ethnostate in its place. Everyone there who isn’t a genocider is welcome that includes Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, atheists etc, etc.
I totally agree in theory, but unfortunately there are too many religious zealots on both sides that won’t accept this. As I age, the thing that frustrates me most is realising there seems to be something fundamental built into human nature that makes a huge number of us susceptible to manipulation by con artists that use organised religion for their own purposes. (Just in case it’s not clear - I’m an atheist and view all organised religion as a con)
You are dangerously close to the “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
Two guys are fist fighting in the street. One is a trained fighter and fully armored from head to toe. He let’s himself get punched by the other, pulls out a shotgun and wastes him. The armored one is also a bully and has been antagonizing and pushing down the other for decades.
They aren’t the same. Finding a solution is difficult because Israel made it that way. They have been consistently fostering extremism on the other side.
Yes. Israel is currently way more powerful. But what is the relevance here?
If there was a single state, the people would all have the same access to weapons.
And there would still be a lot of people who would want to exterminate anyone who follows a different flavor of Abrahamic religion. And yes, those currently existing on both sides.
The relevance is that Israel isn’t defending itself. Hamas was fostered by them and they let the attack happen. They created a reason to commit genocide. The innocents inside Israel that are against the war aren’t being defending through the act of genocide. The solutions proposed would not put any of them in danger.
And Palestine fostered the reason for the reason for the attack. That conflict has been going on for a century. Nobody alive started it.
I would love it, if a secular one state solution would work. But I fear that that would at the very least need a giant blue helmet mission for a few decades.
Unless that secular state is created through gradual reform of the Israeli government. Their military apparatus should be able to keep the peace. But only if their goals are aligned.
You are dangerously close to the “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
I can understand how it could be seen that way - it was not intended. It is very clearly a genocide. But, I don’t think you can deny that there are religious zealots on both sides that would resists the proposed “simple” solution.
There is another religion that plays an important role in this dynamic and it is corporate. They control the media narrative to maintain the status quo since they own the “respected” media sources.
War is profitable, ethnic cleansing for development is profitable, corporate tech developed in Israel is profitable.
I understand your sentiment, but it’s a really difficult situation. I don’t pretend to understand the history but I think I understand that there are a lot of people that believe the very existence of Israel to be illegitimate (and with my limited understanding I tend to agree) but we now have generations of totally innocent people, that despise their government, living there. I don’t have a solution, but I can’t accept that these innocent people have no right to self defence just because they have not yet had the strength to overthrow their government.
The history is rather simple just as the path out. Remove Israel and have a non ethnostate in its place. Everyone there who isn’t a genocider is welcome that includes Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, atheists etc, etc.
I totally agree in theory, but unfortunately there are too many religious zealots on both sides that won’t accept this. As I age, the thing that frustrates me most is realising there seems to be something fundamental built into human nature that makes a huge number of us susceptible to manipulation by con artists that use organised religion for their own purposes. (Just in case it’s not clear - I’m an atheist and view all organised religion as a con)
You are dangerously close to the “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
Two guys are fist fighting in the street. One is a trained fighter and fully armored from head to toe. He let’s himself get punched by the other, pulls out a shotgun and wastes him. The armored one is also a bully and has been antagonizing and pushing down the other for decades.
They aren’t the same. Finding a solution is difficult because Israel made it that way. They have been consistently fostering extremism on the other side.
Yes. Israel is currently way more powerful. But what is the relevance here?
If there was a single state, the people would all have the same access to weapons.
And there would still be a lot of people who would want to exterminate anyone who follows a different flavor of Abrahamic religion. And yes, those currently existing on both sides.
The relevance is that Israel isn’t defending itself. Hamas was fostered by them and they let the attack happen. They created a reason to commit genocide. The innocents inside Israel that are against the war aren’t being defending through the act of genocide. The solutions proposed would not put any of them in danger.
And Palestine fostered the reason for the reason for the attack. That conflict has been going on for a century. Nobody alive started it.
I would love it, if a secular one state solution would work. But I fear that that would at the very least need a giant blue helmet mission for a few decades.
Unless that secular state is created through gradual reform of the Israeli government. Their military apparatus should be able to keep the peace. But only if their goals are aligned.
I can understand how it could be seen that way - it was not intended. It is very clearly a genocide. But, I don’t think you can deny that there are religious zealots on both sides that would resists the proposed “simple” solution.
I don’t think Gaza is able to resist anything at this point. I don’t think they are the ones holding back any solution. Food on the other hand…
There is another religion that plays an important role in this dynamic and it is corporate. They control the media narrative to maintain the status quo since they own the “respected” media sources.
War is profitable, ethnic cleansing for development is profitable, corporate tech developed in Israel is profitable.
100% agree - that all falls into my “con artists using religion” bucket - I know it’s a stretch.