Everyone has the right to defend themselves.
The issue with Israel is they aren’t defending themselves, they are on the offensive side.
I get the gist, but there’s a massive difference between self defence and committing genocide.
I don’t think it’s good to bundle self defense with genocide and other war crimes.
Everyone has a right to self defense.
It’s saying people that use the phrase “they have a right to self defense” when they are really just defending genocide. Like Israel blowing up a hospital because “terrorist” were in them, but they have no proof. It’s just an excuse to kill civilians.
Kind of like people use “think of the children” to enact policies that hurt grown women or make situations that actively put children in dangerous situations.
I think the point is that people defending Israels genocide user the phrase that is the cartoon… Hence those people being the worst. Nobody compares genocide to the right to defend other than people defending Israels genocide.
This. It’s the same type of situation as saying “All Lives Matter.”
No one disputes the fact that countries have the right to protect themselves and their citizens when attacked, but it’s being used as a dog whistle to justify an offensive campaign of murder and genocide that denies another nation’s right to self-defense.
“Look what they made us do! Their genocide is their own fault.”
“I will never forgive them that they made us kill their children” – some crazy Zionist
Genociders do not have the right to self defence. Israel does not have the right to self defence. Israel must be removed and the land given back to the people they are stealing it from.
I understand your sentiment, but it’s a really difficult situation. I don’t pretend to understand the history but I think I understand that there are a lot of people that believe the very existence of Israel to be illegitimate (and with my limited understanding I tend to agree) but we now have generations of totally innocent people, that despise their government, living there. I don’t have a solution, but I can’t accept that these innocent people have no right to self defence just because they have not yet had the strength to overthrow their government.
The history is rather simple just as the path out. Remove Israel and have a non ethnostate in its place. Everyone there who isn’t a genocider is welcome that includes Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, atheists etc, etc.
I totally agree in theory, but unfortunately there are too many religious zealots on both sides that won’t accept this. As I age, the thing that frustrates me most is realising there seems to be something fundamental built into human nature that makes a huge number of us susceptible to manipulation by con artists that use organised religion for their own purposes. (Just in case it’s not clear - I’m an atheist and view all organised religion as a con)
You are dangerously close to the “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
Two guys are fist fighting in the street. One is a trained fighter and fully armored from head to toe. He let’s himself get punched by the other, pulls out a shotgun and wastes him. The armored one is also a bully and has been antagonizing and pushing down the other for decades.
They aren’t the same. Finding a solution is difficult because Israel made it that way. They have been consistently fostering extremism on the other side.
Yes. Israel is currently way more powerful. But what is the relevance here?
If there was a single state, the people would all have the same access to weapons.
And there would still be a lot of people who would want to exterminate anyone who follows a different flavor of Abrahamic religion. And yes, those currently existing on both sides.
The relevance is that Israel isn’t defending itself. Hamas was fostered by them and they let the attack happen. They created a reason to commit genocide. The innocents inside Israel that are against the war aren’t being defending through the act of genocide. The solutions proposed would not put any of them in danger.
You are dangerously close to the “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
I can understand how it could be seen that way - it was not intended. It is very clearly a genocide. But, I don’t think you can deny that there are religious zealots on both sides that would resists the proposed “simple” solution.
I don’t think Gaza is able to resist anything at this point. I don’t think they are the ones holding back any solution. Food on the other hand…
There is another religion that plays an important role in this dynamic and it is corporate. They control the media narrative to maintain the status quo since they own the “respected” media sources.
War is profitable, ethnic cleansing for development is profitable, corporate tech developed in Israel is profitable.
100% agree - that all falls into my “con artists using religion” bucket - I know it’s a stretch.
Except they do?
They don’t have the right to commit genocide, but they still have the right to self defense.
Why the hell would you word it that way?
You sound like a bad-faith actor trying to create pro-Israel talking points
Israel does have the right to self-defense. They do not have the right to genocide. They frequently do both
Israel does not have the right to exist, so there is no right to defend it.
Israel does not have the right to exist, so there is no right to defend it.
I mean, you could theoretically validly say that about all countries, but saying that about, say, Palestine, would evoke blanching from most of us here.
Insofar as any country has a right to defend itself, so too does Israel.
It’s just that Israel has rarely acted or attempted to act in self-defense, preferring to pursue senseless and horrific genocide instead.
This is the definition of genocide. You’re making it sound like you’re ok with genocide as long at it’s against Israelis.
Nations come and go, that’s not genocide.
Israel flattened Hamss, wrecked Hezbollah and the Houthis, then went and gave Iran a beating.
Nah they cool bro, they earned the right to exist.
They do. But they don’t have the right to preemptively slaughter innocent people.
That is apparently reserved for ICE.
