This is so stupid. How would they even enforce it? Are they going to check everyone’s chromosomes at each meeting?
Lots of trans women pass, and lots of cis lesbians can look a bit manly, so I can’t imagine any practical way to enforce it. And a rule without enforcement is pointless.
Heads up, they lost…….again. This 15 member group failed to change a law that doesn’t need changing. Sometimes good things do happen.
Will they accept a ftm trans person into their group?
I doubt it. Once you start excluding some people, you start looking for ways to exclude everyone. Choose love, not hatred.
Yes, if they are attracted to people of the same sex.
Lesbian is a term based on biological sex. “Gender identity” has nothing to do with it. Males cannot ever be lesbians., by definition.
Trans lesbian is a common term. Sex and Gender are linked concepts and in LGBTQIA+ spaces gender takes precedence in self identification. A gay trans man likes men, a lesbian trans woman likes women. You are either ignorant of this or being deliberately obtuse because if you spent time in spaces where these terms are used by people describing what their sexual preferences are these concepts would be second nature.
Lesbians are women (a gender) who like women (still a gender). You would not be required to find everyone of the opposite sex attractive as a straight person and lesbians are not on the hook to be attracted to all women. Being in a relationship with another person uses language that can cause the same psychological harm to trans people as deadnaming and misgendering. If you call a Cis Woman and a Trans man in a relationship “Lesbians” you are implying they are both women. This is an invalidation of the trans half of the relationship and you will cause the trans person to experience heightened stress.
I suspect you simply discovered a dictionary and have decided your definition for yourself and are now attempting to apply it. The reason you are being downvoted is because your narrative is not reflective of how language is being used.
“Trans lesbian” is different to “lesbian”. This is a lesbian group, using the long established and understood definition of same sex attracted women. Gender doesn’t even come into the equation.
Lesbians are women (a gender) who like women (still a gender)
No, Lesbians are same-sex attracted women. They’re homosexual. Again, gender or “gender identity” doesn’t even come into it. Trans women are male in terms of sex.
Sexual attraction is not based on gender, especially since genders can change at will these days. You (a man) don’t suddenly become gay if your wife decides she’s now a man, nor does your wife.
You know what also causes people heightened stress? Males invading lesbian spaces. Males using female bathrooms. Males suing females for excluding them from female only apps/clubs.
Sex exclusive things exist for a reason, and it’s not just to upset trans people.
You know what being misgendered actually does to trans people? I will give you a hint. It’s mental AND physical. It subtly poisons every relationship they have with other people. It destroys their ability to find meaningful social connections. It causes gut, skin and inflammation problems. It literally makes them feel more pain and be less resilient to unrelated stressors. Over time this means endemic health problems or suicides.
What being excluded from “cis women only” spaces does to trans people is institutional. If a trans women uses a male restroom they risk assault. It’s very common for trans women to be stalked to secondary locations once they leave a male bathroom. They still face prejudice and retaliation in female bathrooms but they are dramatically safer and there has been virtually no incidents of assaults by trans people using bathrooms on cis women. They might feel like they are in danger but that isn’t founded on any real world data. They might share a bathroom space with a trans woman a few times over their lifetime but for a trans person having a safe place to use the bathroom is an every single day problem. When trans women are forced out of women’s support spaces they become increased targets of rape and exploitation.
I guarantee you there aren’t trans women knocking down the door to these transphobic lesbian spaces. This is a fucking nothingburger. Trans women face incredible safety problems in dating and I can tell you from experience they don’t stay where they aren’t made to feel welcome because it’s not fucking safe for them to do so. The REASON trans advocates stop these clubs from making this exclusion law is not because they want to force themselves into spaces they on the whole don’t really want to be - it’s because it opens the door to use cases to destroy their ability to exist in public. It makes them unable to support themselves which forces more trans sisters in illegal activities and sex work.
Quite frankly these women can suck it up and be catty fucking bitches to trans women like they’ve always been in the past and deal with the inherent drama of that instead of trying to change laws that will bite them in their own asses one day when they are expelled from bathroom spaces or have the cops called because someone can’t tell the difference between butch and trans.
“Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me”
Sorry but words are not violence, and words do not cause physical harm. You can be offended by words, but that doesn’t mean the words are offensive.
There are so many cases of trans women litigating and carrying on relentlessly about not being welcomed in to women-only places, that you suggesting it doesn’t happen is crazy. I’m sure you know about the tickle vs giggle case that’s been going through the courts for almost 4 years now, don’t you?
LAG are a bunch of terf arseholes and considering the transgender panic has been explicitly dropped and fanned as a distraction from Epstein Activities, I will consider anyone pushing this shit to be a goddamn pedo mouthpiece.
Get. Fucked.
“The Victorian-based LAG says it subscribes to the philosophy of lesbian feminism and does not believe humans can change sex.”.
Nobody’s suggesting people can change their biological sex. But gender is a social construct, separate from sex. That’s why it’s literally called transgender.
Thats fun. Have they done any blood work themselves to confirm they arent actually intersex? Coz if we are gonna get into sex identity…
“Sex identity”?
Intersex people are still male or female. Intersex, now known as “Difference of Sex Disorders”, are conditions that affect males and females, but don’t mean you’re neither or both. There are male affecting DSDs, and female affecting DSDs. There’s not a single person in history who is/was anything other then male or female.
And lesbians are same SEX attracted women, not same gender.
Literally my first thought: s it going to be based on honesty policy or is one of them going to act as the official genital inspector? I mean I am a heterosexual cisgender man, but even I can see that they are going to struggle to attract new young members when the newbies have to demonstrate their fully functional reproductive system to a senior member before being invited to events.
I have heard some pretty rough stories of women transvestigating people and making it worse by pushing past the limits of verbal and psychological harassment into physical assault. Do they really feel that this will make their community safer?
I mean if they’re allowed to exclude men on the basis of sex then I don’t see why not. What’s to stop them from rebranding themselves from a lesbian group to a cis woman lesbian group.
The group is for Lesbians, fullstop. “Cis”, “trans”, “non binary” - none of that matters. What matters is your sexual orientation, which is based on biological sex. Only females can be lesbians by the very definition of lesbian.
Well. I now know which side is being more reasonable
The one who wants a group for same sex attracted women to only be made up of biological women.
Yeah like why are you so hung up on that aye
Why am I so hung up on sex being important for sex-based things? I would think that’s pretty obvious.
Should a gynaecologist be forced to inspect and test my penis to see if I have cervical cancer?
You’re still posting in this thread?
What a strange thing to say in an online discussion forum.
TERFs in action, folks.
When minorities forget that reactionaries hate all of them equally.
This is so stupid
Yes, so call it what it is, bigotry.
You use your words, I’ll use mine. But I think we agree.
Lesbians are same sex attracted women by definition. Sex, not gender. Even if you consider trans women to be women, their sex is still male. This means that by definition they cannot ever be a lesbian.
Lots of trans women pass
A lot, lot less than you think. Close to zero.
Sex, not gender, based environments are absolutely necessary for society. Having them open to both sexes defeats the entire purpose of their existence.
How do you know if a trans woman is passing? You probably only notice the ones that don’t.
Because they never do.
