• ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    i reckon those missiles and drones are already being sent for iran to use against israel as we speak right?

  • DonLongSchlong@lemmygrad.ml
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    3 days ago

    In what way is China currently helping Iran? I assume intelligence and surveillance technology?

    I see a lot of the typical bs like this:

    I would like to be able to provide a bit of pushback against such narratives

    • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      I am reminded of the USSR and it’s entrance into open conflict with the Third Reich. Hitler made it very clear that the USSR was the target. The Soviets knew. But they made non-aggression pacts with them to buy time.

      Stalin reached out to the Western governments and asked them to join forces against the Nazis but they refused. So the Soviets knew they couldn’t rely on anyone else.

      And then England broke their non-aggression pact and started fighting against Germany. The USSR didn’t join then. They waited. And 18 months later the Nazis attacked.

      Well, in those 18 months the Red Army quadrupled in size. That alone should explain it, honestly. The Soviets were just not ready in 1939 to take on the Third Reich.

      US intelligence has been saying for some time now that by 2027 China will become unbeatable. If that’s to be believed, then it’s reasonable to see this as an echo of what happened in WW2. China is actually just not in a position to win yet. They risk too much by acting too early.

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      Why? Why insist that China takes a role of global police? They themselves are surrounded by a myriad of american military bases drooling to attack China, they can’t divest their resources at this time.

      Also iran hasn’t “collapsed”, do not underestimate them.

      • Chezeng@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 days ago

        Americans are always looking for others to solve their problems. They should do something about their damned government for starters.

        • MissFlapper@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 days ago

          How are we supposed to do anything? The left is non existent here, and if you try to radicalize people, they wont listen because theyre the stupidest people on the planet, and wont accrpt the facts

          • burlemarx@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 days ago

            US people aren’t any more stupid than any other people in the world. The biggest problem of the US (the majority, since there are a few true comrades there as well) is that you expect every four years a savior will fall from the heavens and solve all your problems without you having to move your asses.

            It’s your job as a socialist to do something. If you have nothing better to do, read theory. If you know theory, then agitate. If people are agitated, then demonstrate.

          • shreditdude0@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 days ago

            What we can do is continue to learn to be better revolutionaries. Material conditions have not gotten to “ripe for revolution” levels in America, but frankly, we’re focusing on something that isn’t realistically achievable yet; revolution requires much work–preparation, convincing and organization of the masses, and establishing material support systems before anything else. We must continue talking no matter how exhausted we become. And we must come up with ways to help those among the working class who are the most disenfranchised–people of color, LGBTQIA+ folks, immigrants, and the destitute.

            It’s imperative that we realize that we have to start from precisely where we find ourselves; if it’s just one of us, we must find that second person. Now, we must think about what it is we want to do (find this second person) and identify the things working against this (the contradictions). Likely, there are many of these contradictions and they could be something that are severely out of our control, but others, likely aren’t. We must identify what the most pressing contradictions are and come up with ways to tackle them and resolve them so that we can achieve the desired outcome–finding this second person, our comrade. Maybe identifying where it is one can meet another person? This will vary by individual, no doubt, but perhaps, we can try to adapt and work within our constraints. If we spend many waking hours at work or at school, well, luckily, we are exposed to people, here, so we can get to know people. Going out to the library, to some sort of “third space” or hobby area, perhaps we can find someone here, as well. We also have the Internet–we can look to see if there aren’t already existing groups locally. If so, then we can reach out to these groups, meet them, learn about them, share our ideas, and maybe collaborate on creating a program that would mobilize these groups, if they aren’t already, into going out, identifying who among the working community is the neediest, and doing something that can address or alleviate some of their problems. Then, teaching them about your mission goal (wanting to become larger, more influential and effective at helping the community, teaching them to–and making it realistically possible to do so–collaborate and help one another, or something to this effect), the sort of things you would like on a community level, and your understanding of why things are the way they are and why the system has failed at achieving that.

            We must see, in the real world, though, that there truly are others like us and we’re all not just a few hundred people scattered across the globe. When we achieve steps to becoming organized, we must realize that these are successes; finding a comrade or a group even within our own town, village, or city, is a very hope-inspiring thing, I would say! With two comrades, it becomes significantly less difficult to go out and find a third, then, a fourth, a fifth, or an _n_th comrade. These are all victories because we are advancing toward having a foundation that is capable, then, of going out and investigating–we meet the workers of our neighborhoods, our towns, our communities, and we learn from them their greatest immediate material struggles. Once they tell us what they need, we remove that guesswork of knowing what needs to be done.

            I like looking and learning from the Black Panther Party and the community services they provided black communities; feeding them, providing clothing, teaching them, empowering them to resist oppressive forces, creating kinship and community bonds.

            I’d like to point out that we, as individuals, don’t have to do every single one of these things. That’s why it’s important that we meet folks who have a good idea of their strength in whichever regard. Perhaps some are better at cooking, others have more means or connections at acquiring material resources, some have transportation, some are tremendously well-read on Marxist theory and/or great teachers, some have good organizational, planning, and/or leadership skills, some are charismatic, and maybe some are better at agitating, inspiring the people, and making calls to action.

            There is much that needs to be done, but beyond helping folks with their material conditions, it is important that they know how powerful even their contributions to the cause would be to expanding the effectiveness of this program to further help more and more people. I know there are already a lot of charity organizations or mutual aid groups, but many of these groups likely aren’t actively going out to the community and instead wait for the community to come to them; many times, this isn’t realistic, as the folks who struggle the most are likely preoccupied surviving and it lessens the chances that they will know about an organization’s existence. We must learn from the experience of other revolutionaries; think of the pamphlets and fliers that they distributed. Remember that many community members aren’t online, especially those who struggle and do some of the most grueling waged labor. These are the people we want to help with their struggle, even if it’s just something like food or anything that would alleviate some of their material problems. When we improve their material conditions, something that the current state isn’t doing, we gain legitimacy and credibility. And equipped with Marxist theory and a dialectical program, we can begin to teach them why it is that things are the way they are in their lives, within their local context.

            I dunno if there are comrades with far more real-world experience, but I think doing this sort of work in a manner in which the revolutionaries go out and reach out to the masses, catalogue their problems, work towards solutions or at least alleviate their problems seems like the most effective at organizing. This is what I learned from reading parts of Selected Works of Mao Zedong; he stressed going out into the villages and interviewing folks or “investigating” (he loved emphasizing investigation–No investigation? No right to speak!). But before we can do this, it’s also important to have others already by our side who are also willing to collaborate, provide efforts based on their ability and work as a group. There will obviously be folks who are more capable, under the current constraints of the system, to do this sort of work. When we make community with others and when people have been sought out and helped, that sort of thing does something tremendous and transformative for folks. I think that’s when the spark and desire to help others comes in or sort of “propagates” among working people. Not to mention that if they’re given that small “breathing room” to actually not have to struggle for survival every waking moment; this is, without a doubt, instrumental in giving people the real ability to contribute to helping others.

            We always hear “get organized” and such, but never how to even begin. If we take a scientific approach to achieving this sort of “organized”, we see that in the initial stage or granular level of an organization, it’s just one, two, maybe a handful of people. This is organization in its infancy, as it buds. Much like our understanding of communism itself–something that we continuously work to achieve–its the same with organizing that desperately needed group. It starts small and it expands to those who are sought out and helped out of the problems brought upon them by the current system. When new members of this organization join, ability to carry out tasks and resolve problems improves. Everyone has value and something that they can contribute, but it’s also imperative that they learn the program and foundations necessary for the continued growth of the organization, how to distribute material resources, and how to weaken the chains of the system that it has on individuals and their households.

            Sorry if any of this seems out of order. My ADHD brain can become quite scattered and I sort of jump from point to point rather ungracefully, at times. For that, I apologize, but I hope someone can find some sort of meaning out of any of this. If there are any comrades who have a ton of real-life experience undertaking this, I would love to learn. Most of what I know is from what I’ve come to understand from my studies of revolutionary texts. But writing much of this out was revelatory to me. I’m very much inspired to seek out and find that somebody or somebodies in my town. I know I have my own strengths, and I aim to improve in other ways, such that these skills can be used for the organization of working people to help one another. I know it is a ton of work, but knowing that struggles can be overcome with combined efforts gives me strength and fills me with hope that there is, indeed, a path out of the current system.

          • Space Dengism@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 days ago

            We keep pushing. Giving up is never the answer. And the left is making progress. 10 years ago it was still taboo to call yourself a socialist.

            There are mainstream political positions well to the left of Bernie Sanders now.

            We are making progress

          • 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 days ago

            First off, I love that these people always assume everyone that criticizes Chinese lack of involvement is automatically from the US.

            Second off, it feels more and more to be completely ok on here to be an armchair revolutionary, so long as you are outside the US. In their minds, the handful of US communists don’t deserve opinions because they aren’t willing to run outside and immediately get themselves shot by our fascist police force, which has a budget large enough to make itself the third largest military on the planet.

            The best US communists can do right now is ride the momentum and use it to convert people. Or at least open their minds.

      • Conselheiro@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 days ago

        Because they have strategic partnerships with Iran, for a start. I’m less optimistic about China than most on this forum, but this is not an attack on Niger, Burkina Faso or even Cuba and Venezuela, it’s a direct attack on what should be a critical military ally that would even have every right to call for Chinese assistance, including within the UN charter. It’s depressing this is the most China can offer an ally, and makes me wonder if they would do anything if even the DPRK got attacked at this point. It’s not about being world police, it’s about mutual self-defence and they should at the very least threaten some diplomatic repercussion or material support of some kind.

        But even at that, they’re also a permanent member of the Security Council, so if they’re gonna pretend the UN has any legitimacy they at least have a global responsibility to do more than this. For what it’s worth, South Africa forced the ICC to issue a warrant against Netanyahu and Petro was in US soil calling for US soldiers to disobey orders and create an army to liberate Palestine, so even on the diplomatic front they’re lagging behind. 30 Cuban soldiers died defending Maduro, and the DPRK helped defend Kursk. At some point this inaction becomes complacency which, with power to do something, will eventually become complicity. I’m not a Chinese citizen, so I have no say on Chinese foreign policy, but they’re proving themselves a lackluster ally, specially comparing to Capitalist Russia. They should at the very least say “we condemn this and are looking into reducing trade with Israel until it shows commitment to peace in the region” or something.

        • KrasnaiaZvezda@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 days ago

          They should at the very least say “we condemn this and are looking into reducing trade with Israel until it shows commitment to peace in the region” or something.

          China doesn’t like to take “political action” against countries though, in part for neutrality and in part to keep itself open to capitalists investments in China, seeing them as stable.

          They did however raise the risk of investing in the colonist entity to the maximum level right after the genocide against Palestinians re-intensified, meaning their companies can’t invest there or do any long term deals with them, but we only heard about it recently when a contract couldn’t be completed with a Chinese company because they can’t invest there. And considering they did it once it’s quite possible that a few more countries will be considered riskier to invest in due to the attacks against Iran. Perhaps even the whole of europe included due to rise in prices of fuels.

      • DonLongSchlong@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 days ago

        Do not misunderstand; I disagree with the picture and used it as an example of something i want to push back against

        Not sure if you actually misunderstood me tho.

      • Lussy [he/him, des/pair]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        Because China’s going to be the target at some point, and the coalition being disintegrated over the years will not prove to be a good thing

    • KrasnaiaZvezda@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      So far, from what I saw, some advanced anti-air, which seems to be having an effect on slowing down the imperial attacks just by being there, and satellite imagery and perhaps even targeting data as well. So who knows the level of intelligence being supplied.

      If there’s anything more I don’t know. It would be interesting if they got Iran, or Russia, some anti satellite weapons too depending on how things are going.

      • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 days ago

        Americans are in a much better position to stop their own goverment than China is. Why should China do your job?

          • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 days ago

            Comrade Gavin Newsom is going to dismantle each american base abroad and bring back the hundreds of thousands troops to build american infrastructure amirite

        • Flyberius [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          3 days ago

          Well I’m not from the USA either, though I agree with your point. But anyway, my thinking is that eventually there’s going to be no-one left to stand with China against the great beast.

      • DonLongSchlong@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 days ago

        I never “hoped” for intervention. I always figured that there are valid reasons outside my understanding and, as another user mentioned, China has a lot of US bases surrounding them and therefore they can’t directly intervene anyway.

        I hope that china can maneuver itself into a position of having the privilege of being able to intervene across the globe.

    • rainpizza@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 days ago

      I want to see all of the arabs from the Gulf topple their govt’s. That will actually be a more promising scenario than to expect a savior.

      If an egg is broken by an outside force, life ends. If broken by an inside force, life begins.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      2 days ago

      China’s already done plenty, including sending weapons and providing intelligence support. Short of starting WW3, I don’t see what else China can do here.

    • Богданова@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 days ago

      Please actually go and support the closest socialist project near you, immediately. Put at least 10% of your effort into it daily that’s conservatively around 2 and a half hours. Do it for at least 3 days every week. Do that every week, no skips. Manage to do this for 3 months.

      Always show up on time, do your task, no excuses.

      If you’re already doing this good. If you’re not, then what are you even here for?

    • Moidialectica [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      They are providing intel and equipment, and granting Iran a foundation to stand on even if they don’t join the war

      I’m not sure what’s the problem here, china will likely do more as time goes on

    • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      If your priority during an imperialist war is to put down the biggest anti-imperialist country there is in the world for not being militarily anti-imperialist in exactly the way that you want, you just come out sounding like an imperialist with extra steps. The superficial level appearance is like you’re on the side of anti-imperialism, but the character of the action is attacking supposed allies. This is what the imperialists want. Divide and conquer is one of their favorite tactics.

      • Riverside@reddthat.com
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        If your priority during an imperialist war is to put down the biggest anti-imperialist country there is in the world for not being militarily anti-imperialist in exactly the way that you want, you just come out sounding like an imperialist with extra steps

        There is a difference doing this in a communist-majority space like hexbear or lemmygrad, where people can make valid criticism and not just “China bad”, and doing this towards the general public. It’s good to have inwards critique constantly, even if it’s not good to let this get into the propaganda war. Seeing as this is a post with 80 upvotes on a minor instance, it’s not the latter but the former.

        China’s “do-nothing” approach has been extremely positive since 1991 for their international prospects, but in 2026 the world needs soviet-style interventionism in geopolitics: intelligence and covert missions, usage of soft and hard power, and even military intervention.

        • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 days ago

          Even within a communist space, it’s still important for self crit to be principled, not sloppy finger-pointing. What I find repeatedly is that the people who show up as the most critical of China for “not doing enough” also don’t have a clear picture of what China has been doing in the first place. It would appear that the absence of shared headlines like “China sends troops to X country” leads some to believe that all they are doing internationally is profiting off of trade deals and enjoying the benefits of that or something.

          I’ve yet to see a discussion about China here that digs into what all they are doing in detail and then tries to critique from the standpoint of being grounded in that detail.

          I get what some people want. Desire for “military intervention” is the “can be seen from space” part of it that keeps popping up. So far, from the people who express desire for it, I can’t recall seeing an explanation of why it would make logistical sense for China to do so in a blatant and overt way, and how it would be overall more beneficial for the international struggle in the current state of things than them specifically not doing it. In other words, is there an argument that it is the superior strategic choice to meet the moment or is it pure moralizing and a desire to see China flex to defend the victims of imperialism? Simply saying it’s what the world needs is not such an argument alone. The world needed powerful international liberation forces a long time ago. The need did not magic them into being.

          • Riverside@reddthat.com
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            2 days ago

            This is an internet forum. There are effortposts about the topic, but not all critique of policy of socialist projects must be a 20-paragraph in a forum format.

            If China had provided, say, radars and interceptors to the Iranian military, Iranian lives could have been saved. I’m not even asking for offensive equipment as in “give nukes and dongfengs to Iran”, because of the associated escalation from the west in the economic and diplomatic war against China.

            Principled communists in this community often critically support Russia’s military efforts against Ukraine with the main reasons being the net weakening of the currently-dominating western imperialism. Can this analysis not be expanded to China?

            Additional well-informed criticism, such as that of Chinese comrade Xiaohongshu, points to the effect of US rapid strikes on anti-imperialist nations in which China economically invests: since Chinese investment is guided by market relations, even comparably small western military action (see 12 day war) can have tremendous effects on Chinese investment in the region due to perceived insecurity by investors.

              • Riverside@reddthat.com
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                2 days ago

                Cool copy-pasta, I appreciate the resource. I did not say China is doing nothing, though, I specifically talked of using soft and especially hard power, and I gave good arguments for it. Wanna address that?

                • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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                  2 days ago

                  Wanna address that?

                  I did…

                  If China had provided, say, radars and interceptors to the Iranian military, Iranian lives could have been saved. I’m not even asking for offensive equipment as in “give nukes and dongfengs to Iran”, because of the associated escalation from the west in the economic and diplomatic war against China.

                  from the post I linked:

                  Iran – Primary buyer of sanctioned oil; infrastructure investment; 25-year cooperation framework; diplomatic resistance to U.S. isolation. Military aid and intelligence assistance.

                  It really just proves the point where I said:

                  What I find repeatedly is that the people who show up as the most critical of China for “not doing enough” also don’t have a clear picture of what China has been doing in the first place.

                  Odds are it’s not going to be fully public knowledge what all they have helped with for security reasons, but if you’re willing to believe that list, it directly addresses what you were talking about.

        • DonLongSchlong@lemmygrad.ml
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          China’s “do-nothing” approach has been extremely positive since 1991 for their international prospects, but in 2026 the world needs soviet-style interventionism in geopolitics: intelligence and covert missions, usage of soft and hard power, and even military intervention.

          Well, you will be happy to hear that in many cases China is doing almost all of those things, then?

    • Verenand@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      Ah yes, because it’s China, every time, everywhere The people, en masse, don’t need to organise and do something for themselves, creating new revolutions, just sit here on their asses, whining about PRC not being smth they wanted

      Useful approach to revolution, builds an argument for purges in those little vanguard parties that ou there

        • davel [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 days ago

          Why do you have a five year old account that has never commented until the last three months, and why is every single one of those comments whinging about China not doing enough to save the world from us?