I replied to someone saying that the USSR defeated the Nazis saying that it was a group effort. Got into an argument and called a Nazi repeatedly because “I was mad that the USSR defeated the Nazis and hated them for it” which is ridiculous. This isn’t the first time that’s happened on Lemmy. What’s up with that?
My goodness. LW seemed like a decent community about two years ago. I stopped lurking there when mods kind of looked away from the xenophobia, particularly against south asians. It has turned to a total cesspool now. I can’t find a shred of compassion or kindness in this thread. Every one of them just focused on ‘owning’ the mls.
And why post to this community instead of PTB? Does this post even qualify as “open-ended, thought provoking question”?
It was kind of predictable.
LW is where all the redditeurs first went when they fled Reddit, and then over time people slowly learned how federation worked and started leaving to join other instances. This kind of “distilled” the user base into the most Reddit-y users who all stayed behind.
Eventually, this leads to a tipping point, because even the people who didn’t really care about leaving two years ago have been forced out by how intolerably Reddit-y the instance has become. It’s now highly concentrated and smug Reddit syrup.
Wow yeah. Lemmy.world’s years of anti-communism has really culminated in a majority fascist userbase at this point. No surprise, but, I’m no longer under the impression it’s mostly clueless random Redditors. It’s just straight right-wing users high on their own smuglord fumes.
There’s truly nobody left worth saving from there.
The extreme reactionary has logged on
There’s something so vile about the way these libs will happily be as homophobic as possible when it comes to an “acceptable target” but are suddenly the LGBTQ community’s biggest ally when it comes to defending them from their own thoughts and opinions about how the system that marginalizes and threatens them is actually good for them and the alternative is far worse because muh evil dictators.
Liberals are like rabid dogs. You have to put them down if you want to help them.
Americans have to keep relitigating this because they can never come to face the fact that they are the most evil people in the world and their lifestyles fund and maintain global oppression and genocide. Their entire lives are powered by the blood of black and indigenous people to start and the rest of the world since this war they can’t stop thinking about. More than being plain evil though the population itself is literally stupid, inane and closed minded so they sit on the internet and repeat the lies their parents told them as fact while being directly responsible for global programs of rape, theft and murder on a daily basis. They have completely dominated the global population for over 80 years and the slightest pushback send them into a tizzy, they hey, at least have spread the wealth to their collaborators the Europeans, Canadians and “that map”
They can’t come to terms with the fact that they entered the war to save the Nazis. They can’t believe that they operation paperclip-ed the Nazi intelligentsia into their own society. They refuse to understand the “red scare” was a literal Nazi power grab that was successful. They won’t deal with the fact that they have killed millions and millions around the world in non stop violent invasions. They maintain concentration camps called prisons and reservations that have completely destroyed entire cultures and societies. They laser focus on a “full scale” invasion in Ukraine as if they haven’t full scaled invaded the country my family is from on multiple occasions.
The people in this thread are evil, small minded, villains who would kill every child in Asia if it would save them a dollar per gallon. They would flatten cities if they feel slighted, they would support and cheer for the policies of Donald Trump if it was just respectable and handsome.
No wonder Donald Trump is their president. He perfectly represents the American character. It is hilarious how they have to believe he is a “Russian asset” to protect their psyche because they can’t recognize a mirror of their own selves. If anything the Russians are trying to get back in the good graces of their American masters, not the other way around. The Americans are the villains. The Americans must be stopped. Death to America. Death to American culture. I stain myself for losing my mother tongue and thinking in their fucking language.
I need to work today. I need to have some faith in humanity in order to do my work. Why did I click that link? Full of the smuggest, most obnoxiously, proudly incorrect American dumbasses I have seen in a while. Like, these are the sorts of people that make you understand why the Red Army soldiers made that one nazi play piano for 12 hours before executing him. So many disgusting CHUDs mad that the Soviets saved them from Fascism.
the Red Army soldiers made that one nazi play piano for 12 hours before executing him
Did that actually happen? It always sounded made up to me.
22 hours. There is no evidence, it was first invented by Anthony Beevor in his anticommunist book about fall of Berlin in 2002.
It just backfired here because while Churchiloid libs on reddit shake with concern over the smol bean SS-men, we think it would be based, although i would certainly don’t want to torture my ears by 22 hour long piano marathon, which also together with the fact nobody had this much time on their hands during one of the most busy battles in history of mankind point on the story being fabrication.
Your correction of me just added another 10 hours to the piano victims of communism. It’s 32 hours now.
Please help i’m now at 42 hour marathon of hearing some nazi play a piano, i cannot sleep and lieutenant yell something at us but we can’t hear him over the piano.
while Churchiloid libs on reddit shake with concern over the smol bean SS-men, we think it would be based
Honestly torture is something I’m opposed to on principle, and it’s something I have a visceral reaction to from the cultural memory of seeing how large portions of the US collectively shrugged off or even celebrated Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. Yeah I know there’s no moral equivalency to be had between “guy the US maybe thinks was a terrorist” and “literal SS officer,” but the reflex runs deep.
At the same time, though, I find it absurd to treat “this handful of soldiers (out of millions) took out their anger on one of the perpetrators of the worst crimes imaginable against them” as though it were a meaningful condemnation of the Red Army, and even if it were proven to be true, my honest reaction would be a shrug.
Honestly torture is something I’m opposed to on principle
This isn’t really torture though, (and yeah, it is fictional). Saying “you’re going to be executed for your crimes once you stop playing” isn’t really torture so much as it is letting them decide when they want to face their punishment. This hypothetical individual could’ve just refused to play and been shot immediately. Which is probably why this propaganda was made in the first place, since it’s supposed to show soviet cruelty and bloodthirstyness since they were horrible and bad for executing Nazis. But if you don’t begin from the mindset of “executing the most evil people to have ever lived is actually a bad thing.” then the whole anecdote is hilarious.
Honestly torture is something I’m opposed to on principle
I mean yeah, most people here recognised right away that it’s a fabrication and thrown that around as a meme in the face of libs believing such nonsense.
Evil monsters like Fidel Castro who, like the evil monster he was, freed the slaves from the poor plantation owners.
[CW: liberal homophobia]
I can see them buying the propaganda around Castro. Can any lib even point to a vaguely believable propaganda reason to hate Che Guevara? The idea that he was homophobic is based on literally zero evidence, and contradicted by his statements.
Are we really surprised that Americans hate people who end slavery?
That settler state was built on genocide and slavery. They wouldn’t have a country without it. There’s no greater sin for Americans than not sacrificing human rights for capital
That thing where the location of US chud accounts got leaked and it was Israel, but for this, and it’s Miami.
Miami is the epicenter of lower neural hypoexitability of the empathy pathways in humans. Reduced frontal lobes all around.
This one is funny because I did ask them about what the Soviets were doing during the Molotov pact and also why.
Then proceeds to repeatedly ignore all the other pacts made long before the USSR did so. I fucking swear liberals are so gross with the selective blindness.
Then proceeds to repeatedly ignore
Yeah that’s the best way to sum up that user
Edit 1:
For anyone else this sums up this user perfectly https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/17045064
I knew I was right to call that guy a Nazi.
Dude would make Goebbels proud.
Text of the post
Diva:
the total USSR causalities were around 27 million, western allies casualties were a combined 1.7 million in all theaters.
calling it a ‘group effort’ does imply an equal contribution, which is what gets peoples hackles up.
JustPlainDave:
The Soviet tendency to throw bodies at a problem until it went away is largely to blame for their high casualties though. And without allied support they’d have lost even more.
Diva:
that is just dehumanizing. the front was extremely brutal and most of the fighting and dying happened there as a result.
stalingrad was where things turned in 1942-1943, lend lease was arriving but was not exactly significant until after 1943. soviet commanders did acknowledge the value of the lend lease, but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards.
JustPlainDave:
that is just dehumanizing (*quoting Diva)
The USSR was good at that
but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards. (*quoting Diva)
Sure, if you ignore North Africa, Western Europe, and the Pacific Theatre.
This whole “the US showed up late and claimed victory” narrative is just as stupid as acting like the USSR didn’t do anything.
JustPlainDave:
The USSR having no concern for their own fighting men is not a plus towards this argument. Germany lost 3-4 million on that front. 3-4 million in comparison to 27 million shows that the Soviet strategy of throwing wave after wave of bodies was a bad strategy.
Every day I wake up glad that RW is sweeping Western countries. I hope it absolutely wrecks their countries and makes them destitute. Maybe then they’ll develop class consciousness, or if not, perish
3-4 million in comparison to 27 million shows that the Soviet strategy of throwing wave after wave of bodies was a bad strategy
This is outright holocaust denial, you were absolutely right to call this Nazi rat out.
2/3 of Soviet casualties were civilians! This is literally ‘military aged males as lawful targets’ logic.
Yup. Just spitting out the “Asiatic hordes” myth, literal nazi propaganda from the 1940s. No, the Soviets did not use human wave tactics (that would be Imperial Japan). They had high casualties because the Germans were carrying out a genocide where entire towns were massacred. They regularly executed POWs and the ones who weren’t were sent to concentration camps to be used as slave labor.
Furthermore, Barbarossa was a surprise attack that caught the Soviets off guard. The Germans were able to establish air superiority early on because of it, along with more AFVs. It isn’t until Kursk things turned around and put the Soviets firmly on the offensive. And the thing about being on the offensive is you need a 3 to 1 advantage because the enemy is entrenched, something the Germans struggled to do as their supply lines were overextended the closer they got to Moscow.
There’s so much wrong with the bullshit being spouted it would take hours to explain why.
If we count only battlefiled and related losses, without murdered Soviet civilians and PoW’s then the casualty numbers are not even far.
No, the Soviets did not use human wave tactics (that would be Imperial Japan).
Also, what do you call the landings at Normandy?
They regularly executed POWs and the ones who weren’t were sent to concentration camps to be used as slave labor.
This is glossed over so frequently. The USSR casualties include three million POWs who were taken prisoner by the Germans and then systematically starved and worked to death. There’s no other POW population on no side of WW2 that comes anywhere close to suffering casualties like this. When you were in the Red Army and taken captive by the Wehrmacht, it basically meant you were being put in a death camp.
There’s no other POW population on no side of WW2 that comes anywhere close to suffering casualties like this.
Polish casualties came close.
Hard to tell the exact number but probably around 1% of Soviet in flat number. Which puts it to around 10% of PoW’s killed, compared to 45% of Soviet ones, so it’s not close.
IIRC, it was 56% for Soviet PoWs killed and ~40% for Polish PoWs.
Can you share the source for Polish PoW’s?
I don’t remember, where I saw this figure.
Was kinda easy to smell hitler particles on this one.
The fucking molotov pact. Every damn time.
Then just a bit of prodding from Diva and the Nazi just outs himself with that stupid human wave story. Really dehumanizing.
Thank you for your service
What’s the truth about the Molotov pact?
The USSR tried making pacts with the West first, because they 100% expected an attack from the Nazis at some point. However, Europe refused. Remember, the Russian revolution happened during WWI along with years of civil war after, a lot of it encouraged and pushed by the same Western countries they were now trying to make pacts with, countries who funded the Whites during the Civil War or would straight up invade them. These countries did not like communism and were probably annoyed they lost the civil war. But, they were exhausted by war and ended up having to acknowledge the USSR as a country after awhile. But it didn’t mean they had to make a pact with them, and it did probably mean they secretly hoped the Nazis attacked the USSR first. As a result, these countries hoped to do the same thing dipshits like to blame the USSR for, making a pact with the Nazis so they’d attack the other side first and they could avoid a war.
This left them with the same problem. The USSR knew they weren’t ready with a war with the Nazis, or anyone, and needed to rapidly develop their industrial base. Originally they were hoping they could catch up industrially and technologically through the West, but when Germany didn’t have their communist revolution, the truth began to rear it’s ugly head. They were alone in the world, the only communists, and hated by every other capitalist country.
Meanwhile, in the West, like I said before, they were excluding the USSR from their own peace agreements and trying to make ones with the Nazis instead. The first of these agreements was famously called the Munich Agreement. When the Germany started probing Czechoslovakia, the USSR offered to come to their aid if France did, too, and Poland and
HungaryRomania let them through. Everyone refused. Instead, Nazi Germany, the UK, France, and Italy met up, purposefully excluding the USSR. That’s the agreement where they ceded Czechoslovakia to the Germans. They basically did their own Molotov-Ribbentrop and separated parts of Czechoslovakia territory to the Germans, Poland, and Hungary, to, similar to the USSR, avoid war. But for some reason, the USSR are called Nazi allies for this, while the West is just small, naive beans for trying to take Hitler’s side and hoping they’d attack the USSR, who is being left out in the cold during negotiations.Abandoned by the West, they were forced to make a non-aggression pact with Germany themselves. Both sides knew it wouldn’t last and war was coming eventually. Hitler wasn’t exactly secret about hating communists in his speeches and Stalin wasn’t secret about how they need to defend themselves from the fascists, so the USSR used the opportunity to develop an industrial base as fast as possible. They also moved forward and took some of Poland (with Germany taking the other half) as a buffer zone for the eventual attack, too, and as a side result saving half that country from the Nazis (well, for a period of time).
The rapid industrialization led to some terrible working conditions and many of the other horrible downsides of capitalism coming back to the USSR. Many times, the “outside enemy” is a good excuse for abusing and exploiting your people, to make them scared and offer safety. But on the other hand, in this case, he was right. And he had a good reason to be - they were just invaded by numerous countries during a Civil War a few years before, the West refused a pact, Germany just purged all their communists and were becoming more fascist, militarized, and anti-communist by the minute, and the USSR was still behind, and weak and vulnerable.
So in the end, of course they were attacked. Despite the preparations, Stalin was caught off guard for various reasons, I suspect the biggest being the timing. He probably didn’t think Hitler would be dumb enough to start a second front before finishing off the British, hoping for another year or so, but who knows. Although it seems very stupid on Hitler’s part, and obviously with hindsight it lost them the war, it makes sense with that logic - he wanted to betray the communists before they were fully prepared and when they least expected it, and before their industrial base caught up to the West.
Hungary let them through
Don’t you mean Romania?
ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.
Ya, thanks. I got confused while naming all these countries.
Last resort by the Soviets while rabidly developing and preparing for war. They knew the pact would not last.
Edit: https://hexbear.net/comment/7518080 the other reply is much better.
your picture of text is not high resolution enough to read
But too high a resolution for hexbear servers to load
Edit* Sorry I for some reason thought you were replying to me.
sheesh
[CW: SA]
yeah they killed everyone in romania, it doesnt exist anymore
Granted the Romanian communist experiment was particularly subpar iirc
Nah, that’s BS, at least in economic terms. Romania was an entirely agrarian land prior to communism, and by the 1980s it was an industrialized country with free healthcare, free education, socialized housing and guaranteed employment, with very healthy economic growth all throughout. After the dismantling of socialism in Romania, people suffered immensely and they’ve been in demographic catastrophe for the past 35 years
Most of the complaints about socialist Romania boil down to “Ceaucescu wasn’t charismatic enough”, which fair enough, but what came after is much, much worse. I have yet to hear someone coherently tell me why the socialist experiment in Romania wasn’t successful, and it would seem most Romanians agree, with 56% of them saying socialism was good for Romania even after a third of a century of anticommunist propaganda.
Never meant to imply it was bad or somehow worse than capitalism. The way it was presented to me was more that it wasn’t as good as many other socialist experiments and had some particularly crummy policies here and there
Any good sources to read on this? I would like to know.
Unfortunately it is just something I have been told by other comrades. I did some digging to see if I could find anything for you but most of what I could find was too out of date and obviously ideological to recommend. There could be something of value in “The Political Economy of Romanian Socialism” by William E. Crowther but the introduction didn’t give me an abundance of hope. The book was published by Praeger (connection to Dennis uncertain) in 1988 which is known for publishing books by Eastern Bloc dissidents. It’s also, seemingly, Crowther’s only book.
However, the introduction, while reeking of capitalist ideology, is genuinely well written and display critical thinking rooted in an obvious knowledge of social science. It’s not a super long book and its on Anna’s Archive if you’re very curious. It could also cite some decent sources within it.
I also found a book called The Socialist Republic of Rumania by Stephen Fischer-Galati but it was published in 1969 and even the blurb of Annas-archive was so abysmal I wrote it off.
Thank you!
