I replied to someone saying that the USSR defeated the Nazis saying that it was a group effort. Got into an argument and called a Nazi repeatedly because “I was mad that the USSR defeated the Nazis and hated them for it” which is ridiculous. This isn’t the first time that’s happened on Lemmy. What’s up with that?

  • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
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    6 days ago

    I knew I was right to call that guy a Nazi.

    Dude would make Goebbels proud.

    Text of the post

    Diva:

    the total USSR causalities were around 27 million, western allies casualties were a combined 1.7 million in all theaters.

    calling it a ‘group effort’ does imply an equal contribution, which is what gets peoples hackles up.

    JustPlainDave:

    The Soviet tendency to throw bodies at a problem until it went away is largely to blame for their high casualties though. And without allied support they’d have lost even more.

    Diva:

    that is just dehumanizing. the front was extremely brutal and most of the fighting and dying happened there as a result.

    stalingrad was where things turned in 1942-1943, lend lease was arriving but was not exactly significant until after 1943. soviet commanders did acknowledge the value of the lend lease, but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards.

    JustPlainDave:

    that is just dehumanizing (*quoting Diva)

    The USSR was good at that

    but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards. (*quoting Diva)

    Sure, if you ignore North Africa, Western Europe, and the Pacific Theatre.

    This whole “the US showed up late and claimed victory” narrative is just as stupid as acting like the USSR didn’t do anything.

    JustPlainDave:

    The USSR having no concern for their own fighting men is not a plus towards this argument. Germany lost 3-4 million on that front. 3-4 million in comparison to 27 million shows that the Soviet strategy of throwing wave after wave of bodies was a bad strategy.

    • egg1918 [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      6 days ago

      3-4 million in comparison to 27 million shows that the Soviet strategy of throwing wave after wave of bodies was a bad strategy

      This is outright holocaust denial, you were absolutely right to call this Nazi rat out.

    • Belly_Beanis [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      6 days ago

      Yup. Just spitting out the “Asiatic hordes” myth, literal nazi propaganda from the 1940s. No, the Soviets did not use human wave tactics (that would be Imperial Japan). They had high casualties because the Germans were carrying out a genocide where entire towns were massacred. They regularly executed POWs and the ones who weren’t were sent to concentration camps to be used as slave labor.

      Furthermore, Barbarossa was a surprise attack that caught the Soviets off guard. The Germans were able to establish air superiority early on because of it, along with more AFVs. It isn’t until Kursk things turned around and put the Soviets firmly on the offensive. And the thing about being on the offensive is you need a 3 to 1 advantage because the enemy is entrenched, something the Germans struggled to do as their supply lines were overextended the closer they got to Moscow.

      There’s so much wrong with the bullshit being spouted it would take hours to explain why.

      • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
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        6 days ago

        The fucking molotov pact. Every damn time.

        Then just a bit of prodding from Diva and the Nazi just outs himself with that stupid human wave story. Really dehumanizing.

          • SevenSkalls [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            5 days ago

            The USSR tried making pacts with the West first, because they 100% expected an attack from the Nazis at some point. However, Europe refused. Remember, the Russian revolution happened during WWI along with years of civil war after, a lot of it encouraged and pushed by the same Western countries they were now trying to make pacts with, countries who funded the Whites during the Civil War or would straight up invade them. These countries did not like communism and were probably annoyed they lost the civil war. But, they were exhausted by war and ended up having to acknowledge the USSR as a country after awhile. But it didn’t mean they had to make a pact with them, and it did probably mean they secretly hoped the Nazis attacked the USSR first. As a result, these countries hoped to do the same thing dipshits like to blame the USSR for, making a pact with the Nazis so they’d attack the other side first and they could avoid a war.

            This left them with the same problem. The USSR knew they weren’t ready with a war with the Nazis, or anyone, and needed to rapidly develop their industrial base. Originally they were hoping they could catch up industrially and technologically through the West, but when Germany didn’t have their communist revolution, the truth began to rear it’s ugly head. They were alone in the world, the only communists, and hated by every other capitalist country.

            Meanwhile, in the West, like I said before, they were excluding the USSR from their own peace agreements and trying to make ones with the Nazis instead. The first of these agreements was famously called the Munich Agreement. When the Germany started probing Czechoslovakia, the USSR offered to come to their aid if France did, too, and Poland and Hungary Romania let them through. Everyone refused. Instead, Nazi Germany, the UK, France, and Italy met up, purposefully excluding the USSR. That’s the agreement where they ceded Czechoslovakia to the Germans. They basically did their own Molotov-Ribbentrop and separated parts of Czechoslovakia territory to the Germans, Poland, and Hungary, to, similar to the USSR, avoid war. But for some reason, the USSR are called Nazi allies for this, while the West is just small, naive beans for trying to take Hitler’s side and hoping they’d attack the USSR, who is being left out in the cold during negotiations.

            Abandoned by the West, they were forced to make a non-aggression pact with Germany themselves. Both sides knew it wouldn’t last and war was coming eventually. Hitler wasn’t exactly secret about hating communists in his speeches and Stalin wasn’t secret about how they need to defend themselves from the fascists, so the USSR used the opportunity to develop an industrial base as fast as possible. They also moved forward and took some of Poland (with Germany taking the other half) as a buffer zone for the eventual attack, too, and as a side result saving half that country from the Nazis (well, for a period of time).

            The rapid industrialization led to some terrible working conditions and many of the other horrible downsides of capitalism coming back to the USSR. Many times, the “outside enemy” is a good excuse for abusing and exploiting your people, to make them scared and offer safety. But on the other hand, in this case, he was right. And he had a good reason to be - they were just invaded by numerous countries during a Civil War a few years before, the West refused a pact, Germany just purged all their communists and were becoming more fascist, militarized, and anti-communist by the minute, and the USSR was still behind, and weak and vulnerable.

            So in the end, of course they were attacked. Despite the preparations, Stalin was caught off guard for various reasons, I suspect the biggest being the timing. He probably didn’t think Hitler would be dumb enough to start a second front before finishing off the British, hoping for another year or so, but who knows. Although it seems very stupid on Hitler’s part, and obviously with hindsight it lost them the war, it makes sense with that logic - he wanted to betray the communists before they were fully prepared and when they least expected it, and before their industrial base caught up to the West.

            • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              5 days ago

              Thank you for the amazong answer! Did poland fight the ussr or surrender? How was the USSR able to cede foreign land?

              • cornishon@lemmygrad.ml
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                5 days ago

                Mostly surrenderred.

                You have to realize that by the time the Red Army entered Poland, the Polish government already ran away to Romania (which was a neutral country towards Germany, and so the Polish Government officially ceased to exist as Romania couldn’t allow them to take any official actions). The few battalions that didn’t get the memo engaged in some skirmishes, but most just wanted the Red Army to let them join their non-existing government in Romania and other neighboring countries.

                Also you have to realize that most of the population of those regions were not Polish at all, they were Ukrainian and Belorussian territories occupied by Poland, so the Red Army truly was greeted as liberators, it’s not just some commie propaganda.

    • Lenin's Dumbbell @lemmygrad.ml
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      6 days ago

      Every day I wake up glad that RW is sweeping Western countries. I hope it absolutely wrecks their countries and makes them destitute. Maybe then they’ll develop class consciousness, or if not, perish