Almost realized their problem is expecting higher talent at lowballed prices.
I’m almost convinced this guy realizes it?
It’s so on the nose, surely no one is that dense
There are people that you can ask about homelessness and they will, in total lack of self awareness, wonder why the homeless aren’t cashing out their trust funds to stabilize their financial problems.
Please tell me you’re kidding.
you meet people who have never felt hunger in their lives and it’s very surreal.
When have you met these people?
mostly at church. but also school.
I have coworkers who are only there for the adult day care.
In my cousin’s case, at school. There was a girl they knew that was shocked to learn that not everyone had a private boat. To her, that was something everyone had, because of course they could afford it. Why couldn’t they?
This is in high school by the way
You would be shocked how sometimes that is true
Just checked out his profile and he seems 100% sincere, unfortunately
Recruiters, HR and consultants are very often psycho and sociopaths, they kind of can’t do their jobs for very long and not be… so… no, yeah, they are that dense, if by dense you mean craven and morally bankrupt.
They also don’t take into account, that someone might be wanting to change roles due to working conditions, family obligations etc and be willing to sacrifice some of their income, to do so.
What does he think will happen here?
If you trick the person making $135k through a few interviews, they won’t change their mind and take the lower paying position.
You still end up hiring the $75k person, but with extra costs, overhead, and waste of time.
HR loves to do busywork, its to prevent themselves from being unemployed.
So instead you are going to spend how many hours interviewing people who will just turn down the lowball offer?
Then you can say things like “people dont want to work anymore we need ai”
“people dont want to work anymore we need ai which costs us more than if we didn’t lowball our potential employees, but hey, the investors are happy.”
FTFY
@socsa It’s not just about saving *that* money though.
Anyone that accepts the lowball offer is either ill-informed, or desperate, and they would prefer desperate employees because desperate employees will bend over backwards and suffer any amount of injustice or mistreatment just to keep their job.
That’s what H1B’s are for.
I’ve done this. Told them up front what my current salary was. Tild them directly they could meet or beat it and we’d be good. Went through weeks of interviews.
They offered me a $20k per year lower salary than what I was making. Because that was their salary for my region.
I told them that was unacceptable. That I was uo front about the minimum I’d accept. They countered with a $15k paycut.
They seemed genuinely syrprised when I said no.
He just needs something to do, otherwise he is gone.
I mean… that’s exactly what’s happening right now for us. Those fucking idiots at HR don’t want to pay higher salary, so we get people with mediocre talents, and the odd amazing person who will soon grow dissatisfied once they realise what they are actually worth, and how much they’re getting shafted. The whole model is built on deceiving good people long enough to use them. Because in their head, people are all interchangeable. They absolutely do not understand the benefits of continuity, and the impact of turnover. It’s just so fucking exhausting to be faced with such stupidity.
So you waste your time interviewing the 135k guy and he obviously rejects your shitty offer?
They’re hoping to somehow talk $135k guy into it.
They’ll bait the hook with things like “unlimited” PTO because there is a chance the reason you’re interviewing is for an easier work environment, not more pay.
It won’t work most of the time but that’s why it’s called fishing and not catching.
I think that’s the implication, yeah. Seems like this guy needs to get taken out on a walk to the end of the pier on a nice day. Go see all the pretty fishes. Maybe watch the sunset.
So you waste your time interviewing the 135k guy and he obviously rejects your shitty offer?
Not just your time, your and the candidate’s time.
yes, so they can then post about how nobody wants to work anymore
Charitably the best i can come up with at least the business would know they’re not offering enough if people keep rejecting them. But then that’s the status quo and all evidence points to wage suppression so clearly they’re just making up bullshit to justify wage suppression.
My wife applied to a job this weekend, no salary mentioned at all and a required field on the form was her salary expectation that would only permit a single number, no letters, not a range.
Right exactly, if you want someone already making $135k then you should offer $135k or more.
Requiring salaries was passed as a pro-labor move. We know it increases wages over time. That’s the point.
HR would like to see you. We’ve had reports of you using toxic “logic” and propaganda on the floor.
“If people knew I was going to underpay them, they wouldn’t apply for a job!” 🤡
This guy later:
Nine people ghosted me after I offered them a job. People just don’t want to work anymore.
So close to being self-aware.
Because its not the low-ball wages that are the problem, it’s being honest about them that’s the problem /s
All you’re gonna do by being dishonest like this is waste people’s time and make them avoid you in the future.
They genuinely believe this.
I interviewed at a place a few weeks ago. They promised everything I wanted - mostly remote, salary range what I was looking for, and so on.
Did the full circuit: initial screening, initial tech call, then a ~4 hour tech challenge + talk with the team, team lead and finally the CTO.
The CTO, at the very end, tells me that the salary range actually tops out £10k below the minimum they advertised (£60-80k instead of the advertised £90-120k) AND that remote work would look much different - they need people 4 days a week in the office plus at least 2 weeks a month full 5 days. Basically, if you’re lucky, you get the inverse of the advertised 1-2 days a month from the office…
Of course I stood up and left, but these assholes are banking on people being desperate enough to ignore massive red flags like constantly being lied to from the very beginning.
You have to start black balling these companies. Leave named reviews everywhere.
I agree. Are there sites that do reviews? Glassdoor got bought out awhile ago and is deeply enshittified
Not quite bad offers but if they ghost you: https://didtheyghostyou.com/
Company name, please and thank you. Your experience is worth little if you don’t share the company name.
I would usually agree, but this company seemed vindictive enough to try and corner me legally if I shared details.
don’t be a dick don’t be a dick don’t be a dick
Well, I suppose that’s the whole point of the imbalanced power dynamic, and the only way to make changes will be to all potentially make personal sacrifices for the collective good, but sips tea, that’s just like, my opinion, man.
To be fair, that’s easy to say when you’re the one asking someone else to make that sacrifice
Agreed, but pressure from the outside is all any of us have until we are in the situation ourselves, and my hope is that if I were, there would be enough pressure to amount to support if I saw consequences. I wouldn’t think twice to contribute to a legal fund for someone in that situation.
There ought to be a law against that kind of bullshit advertising.
(Parse that both ways: 1. Maybe there is one if you look hard enough for it, and 2. If there isn’t then maybe it’s time to talk to a legislator about crafting one.)
Not to give you homework in particular.
For Fonix’s case there already is. That kind of Bait and Switch advertising is illegal - it’s more a matter of enforcement
Bait and Switch is illegal, and you don’t have to look very hard to find it.
Well that would be going straight on Glassdoor and similar with no punches held if that happened to me
Absolutely disrespectful behaviour to brazenly lie to candidates
If you had the initial offer in writing I would email it to them and say you’ll take the job for no less, and based on their response and your local laws, take it to either a lawyer, a minister of parliament, or the reviews section of any site they post their jobs.
Maybe even CC somebody important for extra spice
Sadly no writing, only got told over the phone…
Sounds about right. Refuse to put it in writing, because then you’d actually have the ability to go after them
Them bastards
Sounds exactly like a Bait and Switch, no?
…yes?
That’s exactly why we want them…?
It’s almost as though you’re not supposed to get that person because you’re not fucking paying enough for their talent… 🤔
To be fair, there’s plenty of $135k people who shouldn’t even be making $40k for their “talent”.
Meritocracy is a myth.
So, he wants to hire a person who is valued at 135k for 90-110k.
he wants to hire that 135k person at 75k.
No, it’s even worse, what he wants that 135k person to go through the application process.
The guy seems to be from a placement agency so he doesn’t actually care that the 135k applicant is going to tell the hiring manager to fuck of at the end of the application process when they get a 110k offer and thus not get hired, what he cares about is being seen sending tons of applicants.
He literally has different motivations than those doing the hiring.
Once hired, he becomes a 100k guy and they suddenly want to pay them 70.
I interpret this as the company willing to pay more if there’s an exceptional match, but posting ranges practically filters these profiles out.
But yeah, I’d be happier to actually see these ranges, way less room for companies to lowball you.
Not posting salaries shows an utter lack of respect for my time.
I remember when I was working as a contractor that I would simply not deal with certain placement agencies after they sent me towards positions which were way below my rate and wasted my time on it.
In fact it’s generally a pretty good red flag on an agency or potential contract that they’re not willing to tell you early in the process what’s the range of rates for the job.
Yeah when I was working with recruiters the first question out of my mouth was “what’s it pay?” Eventually got down to primarily going through one agency where the guy knew not to fuck me around but I made up for any annoyance that may have caused by being reliable. That was the only recruiter I ever dealt with who gave me multiple postings at a time to choose from.
Oh it absolutely does, but sadly enough they have plenty other ways to waste your time.
At this point I’ll be happy if they can tell salaries during the first interview, rather than having 3 rounds to then offer half of what I told them I earn on my first call
Then post a second listing and pay range for a senior role. If someone applies for senior, treat them based on the upper requirements for the upper pay range.
Then they are bad at posting ranges and should post better ones. The upper band of the range should be for exceptional matches.
If you want the 135k guy then offer to pay 135k idiot.
150k*
Why would a guy change 135k job for 135k? 150k is what 135k guy wants
The person making $135k probably keeps scrolling.
This is nonsense from the very beginning. Of course they’ll keep scrolling, would you accept more than 30% pay cut when you already have a job? I wouldn’t, for pretty much any position. Even if you’re being selfish and choosy, you want to filter them out so it doesn’t waste your time.
I mean, if you’re already scrolling for job positions making $135k, you’re probably not doing it for a raise. It’s probably because you’re not happy in your working environment.
Still though, I would argue it speeds up the process to post the salary. Because if your 135k dude comes in for an interview and hears 90k, they’ll bounce anyway, and we’ll all have had our time wasted.
🤷♂️
I would love to be making 135k. And I would be very content. But A) baseline cost of living is different everywhere, B) Some people support big families on one salary, C) Some people have others that they care for with chronic health or developmental issues that are very costly, etc. So not everyone would necessarily be content at that salary. Plus, if you are making 135k and you CAN be making more, there is no reason not to be looking for opportunities to do so. There is no honor in making less than you are worth to someone else just because. Job hopping to get that raise is very much perfectly reasonable. And having more than you need means you can be generous and give to those who don’t.
You’re missing the point, the big point was the second paragraph, starting with “still though”.
That’s not what they want though. What they really want, is to pay the best person they can get the absolute minimum they need to pay them.
They don’t think about “what is the value of someone doing this job properly?”
They are counting on candidates not knowing their worth and exploiting that, and this guy is basically saying that
What they really want, is to pay the best person they can get the absolute minimum they need to pay them.
Right, but workers aren’t robots lining up for the quickest hiring they can get. They compare salaries to other places, lol.
I don’t think people are that clueless about their worth.
Of course, but why does this guy (or his client) not want to advertise that he’s willing to pay 135k for someone who can do the job well? Because he wants to get the lowest he can get away with
I understand that part. 👍
Not happy in my work environment here. I’m not quite to 135k but I’m over 100k. I’ve scrolled through looking at jobs and still skip jobs that pay 30k less.
I’m sorry you’re not comfortable at work, first of all. But yeah, isn’t it great that you wouldn’t waste time going to interviews for those low paying jobs? Win win for everyone.
That’s what I was getting at. If they don’t post the salary, it goes to the bottom of the list and if I apply and get told the range in a phone screening, I stop trying if it’s under my pay by more than $15,000 but still do reply but half-heartedly.
Leading with the pay keeps from wasting time and theirs.
Yeah, we are making the same point. 😁🤝
Even being unhappy I’m not switching jobs unless there’s going to be a pay raise. No guarantee the new place won’t be worse. Unless I somehow manage to land something that pays the same but lets me just fuck around all day.
Have you been in a situation where you were unhappy at your workplace?
Yeah. I’m literally in my workplace and unhappy as we speak.
That sucks. I hope that turns around for you one way or another. 🫂
I’d take a 30% pay cut for the right job but I am not sure if they really exist and are something I could realistically get.
Quality control for an escort agency
Why are these shallow, vapid, stupid, pretend-smart pieces of shit in front of companies? Like, how the fuck have we built a society in which these idiots are successful? Holly fuck.
Because capital is more important than human happiness in our arrangement of society.
