https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/venezuelan-armed-forces-bomb-eln-guerrilla-camp-reports/
The operation allegedly relied on US intelligence support, with open-access flight radar confirming the presence of US reconnaissance aircraft in Venezuelan territory.
The Venezuelan armed forces reportedly attacked a camp belonging to Colombia’s National Liberation Army (ELN) in the Pedro Camejo municipality, Apure State, on Friday.
The military operation relied on US intelligence support, according to Stratfor-owned geopolitical and intelligence platform RANE Worldview.
The interior minister additionally rejected any foreign interference in Venezuelan affairs. However, open-access flight radar confirmed the presence of US military assets in Venezuelan territory in recent days, including reconnaissance planes spotted flying over border areas.
Since the January 3 US attack and kidnapping of President Nicolás Maduro, senior US military brass have visited the Caribbean country, including Southern Command Commander General Francis Donovan and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Caine.
In June, US forces conducted an airstrike in Bolívar State that they claimed to have extrajudicially executed Héctor “Niño” Guerrero, an alleged leader of the Tren de Aragua gang. Washington thanked Caracas for “cooperation,” while the Venezuelan government issued a statement informing of a “joint operation.”
Whole article:
Caracas, November 2, 2026 (venezuelanalysis.com) – The Venezuelan armed forces reportedly attacked a camp belonging to Colombia’s National Liberation Army (ELN) in the Pedro Camejo municipality, Apure State, on Friday.
The military operation relied on US intelligence support, according to Stratfor-owned geopolitical and intelligence platform RANE Worldview.
Local NGO Fundaredes stated the operation involved drones and combat helicopters and left 19 people killed, 10 of whom were identified by the forensic police in the state capital, San Fernando.
Fundaredes’ Apure director Javier García alleged that the ELN uses the area as a drug storage and logistics point. Right-wing news portal Infobae claimed that the attack also targeted camouflaged drug-transporting aircraft belonging to the ELN.
On Sunday, Fundaredes reported “armed clashes” which included drones in the Cedeño municipality of Bolívar State, close to the operations of state-owned bauxite mining and processing company BAUXILUM. According to Fundaredes, local miners were forced to leave the area and operations were temporarily suspended. However, the NGO did not identify who conducted the attacks.
The Venezuelan government and armed forces have not issued statements on the reported altercations in Apure and Bolívar. The Communications Ministry did not reply to a request for comment.
Venezuelan Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello said at a press conference on Monday that the country’s army and security forces had been deployed along the 2,200-kilometer border with Colombia to “prevent” any fallout from increased “conflict” in Colombia.
“We do not want any conflicts that are not ours,” Cabello said. He did not address the reports of an operation against the ELN.
The interior minister additionally rejected any foreign interference in Venezuelan affairs. However, open-access flight radar confirmed the presence of US military assets in Venezuelan territory in recent days, including reconnaissance planes spotted flying over border areas.
Since the January 3 US attack and kidnapping of President Nicolás Maduro, senior US military brass have visited the Caribbean country, including Southern Command Commander General Francis Donovan and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Caine.
In June, US forces conducted an airstrike in Bolívar State that they claimed to have extrajudicially executed Héctor “Niño” Guerrero, an alleged leader of the Tren de Aragua gang. Washington thanked Caracas for “cooperation,” while the Venezuelan government issued a statement informing of a “joint operation.”
The Trump administration has not commented on the reported strikes against the Colombian armed group. During a September visit to Colombia, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio referred to the presence of the ELN and dissident factions of the demobilized Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) as an issue that “needs to be addressed” by Venezuelan authorities.
Since taking office in August, far-right Colombian President Abelardo de la Espriella has launched a “total offensive” against the ELN, with multiple airstrikes, security raids, and the militarization of Cúcuta, a major town on the border with Venezuela. It has also joined the Washington-led and funded “Shield of the Americas,” a regional alliance with an express goal of cracking down on transnational crime and migration.
For its part, the rebel group has vowed to resist and condemned US intervention in the region.
The ELN is the longest active guerrilla group in Colombia, having sustained a decades-long insurgency against the Colombian state. The organization maintained an arms-length relationship with the Bolivarian government under Chávez and Maduro, operating across the vast southwestern border uncontrolled by both nations and at times cooperating with Venezuelan authorities against Colombian paramilitaries and dissident FARC elements.
The Nicolás Maduro government supported former Colombian President Gustavo Petro’s efforts to negotiate a peace agreement with the ELN, with multiple negotiating rounds held in Caracas. However, hostilities from both sides persisted and the talks broke down.
Venezuelan authorities have repeatedly denied the sustained presence of Colombian armed groups on their side of the border. In 2021, the Venezuelan army launched an operation against dissident FARC elements in Apure State, with weeks of clashes causing dozens of casualties and thousands of displaced civilians. The ELN was widely rumored to have assisted in the operation.
Jesus, currently 91 upvotes for a anti-VZ / pro-US propaganda. How are ppl not seeing through this?
Something else to make note of. The Chavez/Maduro government allowed the ELN to use Venezuelan territory as a sanctuary for decades. This attack marks the first time Venezuela has bombed the ELN on its own soil, which makes it easy to see this as a direct consequence of Maduro’s kidnapping-ouster and Delcy Rodriguez’s increasing alignment (forced or otherwise) with the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apure_clashes_(2021–2022)
Wow someone who makes shit up about Venezuela like it’s their job making shit up again?? Who would have thought??
Wow 40 people upvote it without even trying to investigate? Manufacturing consent is happening right here on hexbear and the libs slurp it up like starving dogs
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I’ll just copy my response that this in the news mega over:
Uh oh the person who’s entire recent posting history revolved around disparaging Venezuela and attacking those who support them with lies is editorializing again.
Here’s a better article on the alleged attacks: https://orinocotribune.com/venezuelas-army-reportedly-bombs-colombian-paramilitary-group-camp-in-apure-state/
Various armed groups operate along the 2,219-kilometer Colombia-Venezuela border, including FARC dissident factions and paramilitary forces. The area has also faced illegal mining and drug trafficking, illicit activities close linked to these armed groups. Heavy clashes between Venezuelan military forces and Colombian paramilitary groups have been reported over decades; most recently in Apure in 2021, displacing entire communities in Apure and Colombia’s Cauca department. Venezuela has also reported repeated confrontations with Colombian criminal groups near Apure and Táchira, particularly in 2021 and 2022, as documented by Orinoco Tribune. De la Espriella militarized Cúcuta, a city on the Venezuelan border, after a recent wave of murders attributed to illegal armed groups. He had earlier militarized Santa Marta on the Caribbean coast. In recent weeks, attacks by Colombian armed groups have been reported in at least four Venezuelan states. Meanwhile, Indigenous leaders have warned of escalating violence in Amazonas and Bolívar as armed groups seek control of illegal mining. At the same time, US and Western corporate interests begin to resume operations in the area. A month ago, another clash between armed groups and Venezuelan military personnel reportedly left one person dead and five wounded.Another case of users here being allowed to editorialize against revolutionary movements and manufacture consent against Venezuela.
These losers were mad Venezuela couldn’t attack the US but also are mad they are defending their own citizens from being raided by colombian paramilitary groups who are illegally mining and drug trafficking. Yet again this is an example of something happening in Venezuela for years and years but for some reason these absolute jackasses want to great woman delcy into the sole person responsible for the material conditions of an entire nation
Its boggling to me that now it seems like the majority of ppl here have suddenly turned against VZ. Their literal head of state is being held hostage by the US, a Miami gusano is the president of Colombia, and now “leftists” have decided to side with both against VZ, and decide that the Bolivarian revolution wasn’t actually anti-imperialist in the first place.
If a single news article is enough to change people’s minds, that does not bode well. I’m in the middle of reading two CIA whistleblower novels rn, and getting these type of articles published was standard practice in propaganda campaigns against Cuba and the USSR. Sad to see people overwhelmingly falling for it again here.
yeah this is why I’ve been differentiating between the groups of users here, marxists who organize irl and people who just self identify as leftists online. the latter group are truly just liberals, they have never studied, never struggled, and don’t actually know what marxism is. they don’t know how to investigate something, find material evidence, and form their own understanding with the facts that are available. they come to conclusions entirely on vibes, which sometimes end up being accidentally right and embolden them to think they are capable thinkers instead of just, at best, lucky guessers. it is almost a gambling mentality, wanting to be able to say “see I told you so! I called it that delcy was a comprador traitor rat who deserves the wall three weeks after the kidnapping! I was right! I was right!” they don’t need to read any counter argument, read any article or interview, study any history, they just need to read a headline and make a guess and move on. the more guesses they can make in quick order, the higher their odds are of getting one right. its been almost a year and nothing has proven that delcy is unilaterally responsible for venezuela’s situation, and anyone who has been following what is going on there for longer than a year can plainly see that their situation has been continuing on the same trajectory for decades, but that doesn’t matter when you have no intention of knowing anything but just want to be right and convince others you are right.
There is absolutely no possible argument to continue to defend Delcy, nor the rest of the party that hasn’t split to be quite honest.
You are of course correct. But the Delcy Defenders will still try to make those arguments, they are too entrenched on this issue now to let go of their self-imposed illusions, too emotionally invested to allow something like reality and the growing mountains of evidence sway them from their certainty that the current leadership of Venezuela isn’t compromised but is just putting on a show while secretly maintaining the revolution, or that Delcy and the cabinet are just doing a “tactical retreat”. That last bit is a lot harder to claim now that Venezuela is literally bombing ELN guerillas for the US.
I can understand the need to believe that those now in control of Venezuela are still paragons of socialism despite all this, that the kidnapping of Maduro actually was not a significant and game-changing win for the US. It’s hard to take a punch to the gut like that. But the insistence of some here that their denial of reality is actually them doing “material analysis” just makes me wince. And even worse are the attacks whenever someone posts an article like this, where the Delcy Defenders do everything they can to ridicule and silence anyone who doesn’t conform to their “analysis”
You blocked all the people who argued with you because you can’t have an argument without crashing out and needing to take a month off from this website. You’ve been proven to make things up about users here and the subjects you are speaking about. It is very ironic for you to say people are trying to silence you when they just disagree and prove you wrong and then you crash out and block them and then spend a lot of time disparaging them regularly even though you blocked them
It’s funny, because even RT (which is funded by the Russian government) has openly admitted that the current Venezuelan leadership is compromised, and yet some people will still ignore all the obvious signs.
Since when is RT a judge of socialist revolutions
Well Russia is in a pretty good position to know who is aligned with the anti-imperialist bloc, as all of their allies are socialists like DPRK, Cuba and China. What’s relevant is not whether Venezuela is socialist or not, what matters if they’re anti-imperialist or not. If they’re not anti-imperialist then they have become social chauvinists and compradors, regardless of their domestic economic positions (which are becoming neoliberal anyway, and they are not and have never been a Dictatorship of the Proletariat).
There’s a good chance that Venezuelan-Russian relations have cooled considerably since their geopolitical about face. Russian state has enough intel to know that the Venezuelans are integrating with CIA as we speak. Epstein is moving in.
Russia and Venezuela just reaffirmed their partnership a few days ago: https://orinocotribune.com/putin-declares-russia-will-maintain-energy-relations-with-venezuela-delcy-rodriguez-criticizes-anti-russia-sanctions/
It’s honestly amazing how almost every position you take on this subject can be immediately be proven false with evidence but instead of being an honest person who admits they are wrong you just block all the evidence and keep posting against Venezuela like your 401k depends on it
Do you know who else criticizes anti-Russia sanctions? Donald Trump.
The point of the article is responding to the point about Russia’s position. Please try and follow a simple exchange if you are going to participate, otherwise you make yourself look like a fool
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You misunderstand what marxists are talking about when we say “imperialist” because you are applying the liberal definition meaning “of empire” instead of the marxist definition. The marxist definition is that imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism, a phase it enters after financial-capital and industrial-capital merge with the state, such that the state becomes finance-capital and uses all of its power for the benefit of and pursuit of the interests of finance-capital. It is a borderless international system of bankers, hedgefunds and bourgeois interests.
The imperialist bloc in the world under marxist analysis is the nato bloc. The anti-imperialist bloc in the world is everyone opposing the imperialist bloc, which is every socialist state in the world, China, Iran, Russia and dprk being the most powerful among the others.
“Empire” to liberals is just “whenever a big country pursues its interests, that’s empire stuff”. It’s wishy washy nonsense. When you mistakenly think this is what we mean when we say imperialism you totally misunderstand marxists.
If you’re interested in really getting into the woods with this then you need to read Lenin’s Imperialism: The highest stage of capitalism. Or you need to read Imperialism in the 21st Century by John Smith.
But yeah, the tl;dr of this whole misunderstanding is that liberals don’t know what imperialism means so they have no fucking idea what we’re talking about when we say this stuff.
Why would you say Russia is a socialist state? It’s one of the most capitalist countries, with one of the highest wealth and income disparities in the world
Most anti-imperialist countries are, neither Russia nor China are imperialist as Marxists understand imperialism and in fact are undermining the system of imperialism globally.
lmao. there is only one empire and it’s the one you’re living in
the west could never be imperialist theres just simply no way, its those barbaric asians who are all imperialists, white people rule
Touché
Since never. But if a Russian state funded news channel says something like that, then it does add some credence, considering their close ties with Venezuela.
It is strange how vicious some people are about refusing to see this. It’s not just a disagreement, it’s a rabid attack against anyone who doesn’t buy into their specific narrative.
Russia and Venezuela are allies who support each other. The only thing you support is imperialist narratives that are anti-internationalist, anti-Indigenous and anti-communist
I base my analysis on material evidence and not made up idea from my brain so it’s pretty easy to defend chavismo without being a great man theory lib. You defended FRSO’s racist and anti-indigenous position on settler colonialism and now you continue with a racist and anti-indigenous narrative about Venezuela so you have already proven to have a shallow understanding of how to analyze anything
Edit: also really telling that a white person in the UK is demanding a party that they aren’t involved with have a split when they themselves are committed to unity. Colonizer bullshit. No wonder white leftists can’t do anything without splitting, real trot behavior
material evidence
Vague posting by Venezuelan state media in defense of the Venezuelan state.
my analysis
I mostly see you personally attacking people here.
Vague posting by Venezuelan state media in defense of the Venezuelan state.
Maybe take the time to read what I’ve written before saying something that a quick glance at my comment history disproves immediately. I’ve very rarely used Venezuelan state media as any evidence to support the walls of analysis I’ve written here, but since you’ve mostly seen me personally attack people here you clearly haven’t even attempted to investigate the veracity of your claims before talking out of your ass. The amount of my haters here is vastly overshadowed by the amount of users who have upvoted my posts, commented in supporting or agreement, provided their own separate analysis coming to the same conclusions, or DMed me to thank me for pushing back against reactionaries pushing agendas here that are anti-communist. This is also reflected in the analysis I’ve posted on other topics outside of Venezuela too, there is just a concerted effort by some people here to disparage Venezuela and so it’s been extra prevalent lately because most people don’t want to spend any effort fighting them even if they disagree and I don’t want the only narrative here to be one based on easily disproven fabrication and conspiracy theories
If something has been too vague I’m sure I could explain it if you ask
As far as attacking people goes, I don’t think I’ve been personally attacking anyone because my comments would be moderated. This has happened before when I was calling out Islamophobia here so I know it would happen again if I crossed a line. My attacks are very clearly against ideological elements and reactionary actions and as a dedicated communist and internationalist I feel obliged to defend the masses against people wishing for their deaths and working to convince the left to abandon them.
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A reminder to anyone still willing to critically support Venezuela that the Chavistas ≠ the Venezuelan government.
Delcy/ the PSUV absolutely deserves criticism for many of the decisions they have made post-Maduro coup, and to the Marxists/ Communists here, remember that there is still a class divide between the state and the proletariat in a socialist mode of production (which I personally would not even consider Venezuela to be in right now).
Beyond sickening how a pillar of anti-imperialism, as Venezuela used to be, can so quickly become yet another comprador doing the empire’s dirty work.
The problem of not running things by council I’m afraid, you can headshot someone like Maduro and it all falls over.
This is called great man theory, it’s a liberal concept not a Marxist one and is in fact anti-marxist
Idk about that, clearly the movement and structures were weak and easy to topple
Right so it has nothing to do with Maduro or delcy as individuals and is an issue that is inherent to the movement at large. This has been what I’m saying the whole time but many people here are obsessed with great man theory and want to blame everything on individual actors
I’m just saying structural changes may have led to more resilience. One guy can be toppled because clearly they didn’t have many others to back him up
The vice president took over the position and continued on the same trajectory they were already on, with the support of the party and the masses. One guy didn’t get toppled and suddenly change much. If Xi Jinping died tomorrow, Han Zheng would replace him and China would continue on as they already are. By suggesting that Maduro being kidnapped the whole country suddenly changed course in a new direction, or that there wasn’t someone to replace him, that is great man theory.
The structural changes that would have led to more resilience have almost nothing to do with the party or government’s structure and are purely economic and defense related. If they had focused on being self sustainable earlier, diversified away from oil earlier, repressing the opposition, or developed a domestic military industrial complex, they would have been more resilient. None of these things have to do with the president or a council or the design of bureaucratic positions. PSUV isn’t a dictatorship run by the party leader, they have plenty of people who are all collaborating on their strategies, policies, and more.
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Curious to hear from all the people that have been in denial so far about how badly the Venezuelan state has always been compromised for this to be possible to come and explain how it is somehow chauvinism to call this what it is now.
And to be clear I was holding out some hope until now but this is incrontrovertible evidence that Venezuela’s revolution has lost. It is not to say it cannot be won again but this one has failed.
Curious to hear from all the people that have been in denial so far about how badly the Venezuelan state has always been compromised for this to be possible to come and explain how it is somehow chauvinism to call this what it is now.
Just look at the news megathread’s thread on this article. It’s full of mind boggling cope (and attacking OP for their post history which so far as I can tell looks pretty normal). It is odd to see such a divide between the majority of the site and the news mega. I was not expecting that.
My guess is that the news mega attracts a lot of more serious marxists who just want an aggregated news source for generally leftist topics but those users don’t really engage in the forum for the forum itself so don’t get involved in all these spin off threads which are dominated by libs who identify with Marxism socially like a club but not as organizers or with any praxis
It is odd to see such a divide between the majority of the site and the news mega. I was not expecting that.
Not really. The main site was reluctant to call Russia anti-imperialist during the first months of the invasion. There were a lot of “inter-imperialist rivalry” talking points that the news mega has never adopted.
My position stands. I think Venezuela deserves critical support as long as the communes support the state and the state supports them. I never denied that the state made shitty decisions, under any president. But being condescending because a socialist state doesn’t fit your perfect vision is straying into left-wing communism.
We are putting “left-wing communism” and “ultraleftism” on the top shelf until ppl learn what those words actually mean and stop using them to mean “u critizised my faves”
People have gotten sloppy with their thinking and analysis, their repeated critical support for social democratic reformism has somehow morphed into an ideological hatred of actual marxist critique from the left (aka marxists)
Ruthless criticism of all that exists except for all these states, ideas, parties and ppl ive decided cant be critizised
Actually everyone here who defends Chavismo has been pretty clear of our criticisms of Venezuela. If your “ruthless criticism” is just made up and baseless accusations and great man theory it isn’t a criticisms at all, it’s a figment of imagination
Where did I say that
i see you are the left wing communism expert around here
We dont need to be an expert in history to recognize ancient aliens ppl are wrong, and we dont need to be an “expert” in leftcommunism to recognize thats not what it means lol
straying into left-wing communism
Or just plain old normal communism, since Venezuela is not a DotP and has never claimed to be communist nor Marxist-Leninist. They were anti-imperialist at least. Past tense.
I’m sorry but a state bombing actual leftist guerillas with the support of the US military is not “ultra leftism”, stop clinging to this analysis in the face of a genuine smoking gun.
“actual leftist geurillas” doing illegal mining and attacking Venezuelan towns don’t get a pass just because of their alleged ideology. They haven’t been able to get enough popular support to take over their nation, unlike Chavistas, so they are irrelevant
Well, you can also ask rainpizza from Lemmygrad and jabril - Jabril’s actually posted about this
At the same time, US and Western corporate interests begin to resume operations in the area
So who does #2 work for?
Defending your own citizens from paramilitary groups is actually a basic role of a modern state
This coming at the same time as a drone attack blamed on gangs has disturbing connotations.
Attack on Colombian military base kills 4 civilians, including a 2-month-old
I wonder if “gangs” is now being used as the main cover word again in place of “drug dealers/drug runners” (innocent Venezuelan fishermen) now that Trump, whether correctly or not, considers Venezuela to have been conquered with the kidnapping of Maduro. Seriously, what “gangs” have both the drone capability and the motive to attack a military installation? Of course drones are relatively easy to acquire which also makes it that much easier to blame drone attacks on unrelated parties. I would bet we will be seeing more occurrences like this and of false flag operations in general, with drones as the centerpiece in the coming years.
The “gangs” moniker is usually given to leftover groups from FARC who decided to splinter when the peace agreement was signed, and have very little if any ideological motivation, other than the fact that drug running and illegal mining is good business, so they moved in after FARC de mobilized.
They’re usually well supplied and organized since many of them have been fighting the Colombian army for decades
Ah, that does make more sense. Thank you for the context. Would you say it is reasonable then, that they were the ones who conducted the attack on the Colombian military base?
It’s anyone’s guess, really. Farc-splintered illegal gangs are usually used as an easy, scary boogeyman for any kind of crime, when it could just be unrelated organized crime settling scores with people in the base (very much like American bases, Colombian army bases have drug connections), or just some rando doing adventurism.
However, if no “official” armed group has laid claim to the hit, it’s very likely it’s just an intimidation tactic by a local organized crime group, which may or may not be part of the larger “gangs”
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US Intelligence fucking with LATAM again as usual.
To be honest I get the sense that both the Venezuela-with-Delcy defenders and Venezuela-with-Delcy decryers on this site know almost nothing about Venezuela and are picking fights to cover fragile egos (about not knowing anything about Venezuela).
I guess I’m a decryer (the defenders have called me much worse names, so I’ll take it) but I would like to make it known that I never claimed to be an expert on Venezuela. I know there are people here, including people in the Delcy Defender camp, that know a lot more about Venezuela than I do. My problem with all of this was not and is not that there are people here who firmly believe Delcy is carrying on the revolution. I actually still hope they’re right, though I can’t help but see with my own eyes what is happening and see that it is constantly becoming less and less tenable to hold that position.
Even if they were to believe Lenin will soon come back from the dead and save us all, I would still just look at them as being a bit kooky but I would not consider them to be adversaries or enemies, comrades that need to learn a few things sure, but so long as they are still fighting for liberation and fighting to bring about communism, I would still look to them as comrades. For example, I consider myself a Marxist Leninist but I still consider principled and knowledgeable anarchists to be my comrades, despite some fundamental differences and disagreements. The fact that I disagree with their takes on Venezuela is not what I have a problem with (though I do think they have a problem with me simply because of that disagreement).
What I do have a problem with is being told (literally, this happened more than once) to “just shut up,” I think one time it was “shut the fuck up” but maybe my memory is adding the expletive. I have a problem with being called an ultra, I have a problem with being called a liar and instigator, I have a problem with being called worse things I don’t want to repeat here. I have a problem with being ridiculed and silenced, all simply because I do not believe in their version of reality. I have a problem with not being allowed to discuss the possibility that AES countries can sometimes make mistakes or not be able to imply that they are not infallible. I have a problem with their burning disdain and derision towards me and towards anyone who doesn’t fully swallow the narrative they have developed on Venezuela. I have a problem with being compared to fucking Zionists just because I think this leadership in Venezuela does not have the best interests for the revolution in mind when they do these things that the US is demanding of them. But to people like my harasser, that is a crime deserving of their hatred and deserving of hounding me off the site. I have a problem with being told I’m not allowed to discuss my thoughts as a Marxist Leninist - imperfect but improving - about what’s happening without being told I’m essentially stupid and evil and literally that I “want all Venezuelans to die” which is a common refrain when anyone has the audacity to question the Delcy Defenders. They say if we don’t believe that Venezuela is in the right hands and the revolution is being protected, then we obviously must want every Venezuelan citizen to die a horrible death being martyred by the US, when of course we want nothing of the sort. But that’s what people get told, especially in the news mega, if they go against this absurd narrative they’ve cooked up. One user who is active in the newsmega and always posts fascinating and illuminating comments, u/InexplicableLunchFiend, was called a white supremacist! For the crime of disagreeing with the narrative.
People would ask simple questions and would get harshly berated for daring to wonder if Delcy and the cabinet were maybe making bad decisions or asking about opening up for US capital, or for privatizing national assets. People had (and still do) have to walk on eggshells so as not to rile up the wrath of a select few users who will go ballistic with their scorn and derision. If you care to, you can see some of this if you go into my history (which another user in this thread said the Delcy-Can-Do-No-Wrong Clique are using against me somehow, which is laughable because I have talked about all kinds of maybe silly things but nothing bad or out of line with good hexbear standards over the past five years I’ve had this account - though I’ve been around hexbear since its founding, and on the CTH sub before that.) Apparently they’re frothing about me right now, beneath my comment in the newsmega sharing this same article as I did for this post. This is the kind of behavior I won’t put up with.
That’s why I decide to de-lurk and make a post when I see something happening with Venezuela that very clearly demonstrates the absurdity of their position. It’s not a “gotcha! You were wrong, nyea nyeah!” it’s just showing how their narrative is becoming less and less tenable with each new Venezuela-related newsworthy event. And how misdirected their sheer hatred of me and others really is. I’m simply posting news about what is going on, which is exactly what this comm is supposed to be about. And yes, part of the impetus for posting about Venezuela specifically is because it’s my only way of fighting back (since I won’t stoop to their level of bile and cruelty), fighting back against that abject disgust they have for me and for @Awoo@hexbear.net and for @InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net , and for a bunch of others who I don’t know if they would want to be named here, just because we disagree with the dominant clique’s faltering narrative.
Both “sides” of this issue are not the same, and even regardless of “who is right” they are still the ones being inexcusably despicable towards those of us they should embrace as comrades despite disagreement on this topic. So no, it’s not about two sides and neither one knows much about Venezuela but thinks they do. Like I said, I have MUCH to learn about Venezuela, and I would even be glad if by some miracle that defies recent events, that the other group was right. I would be very very happy if Delcy somehow turned all this into something genuinely beneficial for the Bolivarian movement, for the Chavismos, for the communes and for the Venezuelan people. However, my harasser and the followers would love to just spit in my face no matter what ends up happening because somehow I deeply offended them by not agreeing with their supposedly superior ability to do material analysis that the rest of us Marxist Leninists are just incapable of.
That’s a massive wall of text, I know, but I really did just want to get it out there and explain what’s really going on and explain my position in all this, partly because I know there are lies being told about me right now (most of which I can’t see because I blocked the worst offender). So I hope that if anyone cares enough to want to understand what’s happening here, that this helped clear things up.
https://hexbear.net/comment/7487443
Really funny for you to talk so much shit when this comment of yours exists.
You have fabricated so much and been proven wrong and are still committed to lying and pearl clutching when people prove you to be a liar and an instigator. It really is pathetic
Just to clarify I am not personally focusing on any one user, and my subtext is the extent to which people are developing strong opinions on very little information and then getting petty with one another. I think you will likely find something there that resonates with your experience here lol, and at the risk of both-sidesing there is a “doomer” version as well but again not focusing on any one user nor accusing any one user.
I think there is a (Western?) urge to have and share opinions to feel valid or part of a conversation, and to make those opinions stron and come across as thoroughly-backed. This can clash with a need to be accurate on topics that are important for developing lines, like avoiding both (light) national chauvinism and overcompensating via defense of wrong (or potentially wrong) actions of countries run by socialists.
My opinion is that we are getting a trickle of information that is negative but not catastrophic unless it develops more seriously in the future. Because that information is a trickle and is early signs more than huge disasters (maybe barring some of the actions re: Cuba, but I need to research that more thoroughly), it has to be understood in the specific context of Venezuelan society and political economy, which is something I don’t think anyone here understands. It’s not something one understands via Chavista statements of 800 words nor early news articles low on context, but people are reacting to those things hot.
I’ve based all my analysis on material evidence and have provide evidence disproving the many fabrications of the opposition voices here over and over again. Unlike those people, I’ve been keenly aware of Venezuela for more than a few months, and can prove that with my understanding of the nation both historically and over the last year. This is why those who disagree with me have never engaged with my positions and counter arguments and instead rely on logical fallicies, and making things up.
Edit: There is one side who immediately decided delcy was a comprador and did a coup and despite there being no evidence for such a thing almost a year later they still stick to it, and the other side’s entire position is “we need material evidence to support our analysis as Marxists instead of making things up.” None of us have “defended” any great man or woman because we are actually marxists, and the other side exclusively makes things up, editorialized and cherry picks to support their points. Trying to be an enlightened centrist about this is pretty silly
It’s not enlightened centrism to notice the pettiness and extremity often on display that does not actually match substantive knowledge of the nation, and that both sides go out of their way to pick fights. I proposed that this is due to insecurity and tendencies to attach one’s ego to being a X-knower, where X has something to do with socialism, even when there just isn’t that much to back it up. Perhaps there are other reasons to fail to communicate in a minimally comradely way that builds through criticism. There are other detects in this aside from form but I’d rather not mention them to avoid singling people out, as folks are already primed to be defensive.
I see it as putting one’s ego first, or personal frustrations. Unserious behavior that would not be tolerated in most communist orgs. Perhaps you have another explanation.
pettiness and extremity often on display that does not actually match substantive knowledge of the nation, and that both sides go out of their way to pick fights
When the OP of this thread made up lies about me in the exchange that they blocked me, I made it a point to go back and read my entire post history of the last year in search of any evidence that I was missing something about my own behavior that didn’t line up with how I am remembering my own experience here.
In all of my initial interactions I was not personal, petty, insulting or displaying some lack of knowledge on the topic. I have been very clear about what evidence I have to support my analysis and what my speculation is, and why I believe it. At this point that is split among many different posts but it’s all out there.
The only time I start to get more aggressive against people is when they reveal themselves to have reactionary positions and refuse to engage in any sincere, honest attempt at discussing it. In every case, those users start the attacks, they start they petty, they fabricate things and intentionally misinterpret others. The record is clear to me and many others here, most of who rightfully don’t want to spend any energy devoted to this here but nonetheless make it clear I’m not alone in my perspective. I have had regular disagreements with plenty of users here that didn’t devolve into anything petty, because this users weren’t being wreckers, they just disagreed.
Unserious behavior that would not be tolerated in most communist orgs.
You are imagining that we would be in the same org to have this interaction. These people wouldn’t make it through our introductary political education process without revealing themselves to be reactionaries. They don’t ever make it into the organization in the first place. This happens every week with weirdo fringe pseudo leftists who finally decide to try organizing for the first time and then try and push their agendas. They don’t make it to the part where we have to debate internally because they have inundated themselves so deeply with their head canon that they can’t be disagreed with without fully crashing out. Our internal debate process is extremely comradely because we have all proven ourselves to each other and have trust. These posters have shown themselves to be wreckers through their behavior and a nearly year long commitment to blatantly making things up to convince people to abandon a non white revolutionary movement.
This is more like when an organization tries to be in a coalition space with a lib pseudo leftist group that doesn’t do any real organizing but tries to insert themselves into coalition spaces to exploit the work of the organizers and claim credit for things they don’t actually contribute to. This also happens all the time with ultras, radlibs, anarchists, or dem soc clubs that push their agendas and ultimately wreck the work of everyone who is serious about accomplishing the coalition’s goals. In the coalition spaces we would communicate professionally about it but behind the scenes we would absolutely ridicule these people, clock them as reactionaries, and make sure they aren’t continuing to infiltrate the spaces we work in.
It seems your issue with what I am saying is that you want to assert it does not apply to you, thus making what I am saying into a more specific discussion about you or your past behavior - presumably simply agreeing whether it applies or not. I suggested that the pattern of picking fights and being petty was applying broadly, your response is, “I don’t do that!” I suppose there is some fairness in that response but it does mean navigating away from discussing what it means to interface with each other more productively or to try and recognize how something could apply in general and instead interrogating your posting history or something. I’m not convinced that is a productive use of time. It seems like, itself, a fairly petty thing, and the length of your response in invoking it doesn’t make me think it would be a healthy direction. But it seems there is no proceeding without being more specific or ceding ground, so I will address it a bit.
As an example, in our last interaction - and we have not had many - I had read one of your proclamations in the news mega and felt it was likely overstating what materials it was drawing from. I said this and asked if you had a stronger connection to on the ground information, as to me that would make it more justified. But I also suspected it was just overstatement and throwing shade in the process. Your response was evasive and then personally accusatory. Defensive behavior, not being forthright, and straw manning me, before finally accusing me of being a cop for simply asking if you had on the ground connections.
I think these kinds of interactions have been pretty common in the news mega, particularly on this topic since the US kidnapped Maduro, and aren’t unique to you or to me. There’s a streak of petty posting end escalation in Hexbear culture, one that rewarded the aesthetic of righteous dunking, that turns from productive criticism to trying to simply abuse others. Lots of sarcasm, lots of jumping thr gun. Could be “doomer” or “bloomer” on the topic. Edit: I want to note I’m guilty of this as well but I do try to recognize it and limit it in myself.
Regarding organizing: no, I am correct. This kind of behavior would be corrected in a communist org or the org would implode or self-limit from toxicity. I’ve seen it happen a few times among neighboring orgs via members that dual carded or ex-members I’m on friendly terms with. To be clear, Hexbear is not an org and has no discipline and therefore few hopes for much directed impact. I don’t think of anyone here as cadre or expect that of them. But I do think anyone can see the benefit in communicating constructively critically with comrades, certainly when drawing on years of experience navigating much more tense social organizing situations than these without lashing out at each other. Regarding coalition spaces, strategic communication is even more important in that context, the angle must always be what the org achieves through statements to coalition members and ultimately what the aims are of being in that coalition and how they’re served by that communication. When members bring personal invective to those spaces it is universally counterproductive and, in my experience without exception, pointlessly placing oneself as an individual before the needs of the org. I’m not listing any of these things as a personal criticism of you, only to point out that the grounded productive behavior in communist spaces is antithetical to what you’re trying to justify.
I’m not interested in a discussion about what it means to interface with wreckers and reactionaries more productively, which is why I can only really talk about my own experience here with engaging with those wreckers and make a case for why I choose to approach wreckers in that way. I was already clear I don’t initiate with anyone as if they are already wreckers, but if you are organizing and wreckers are afoot, allowing them space to wreck in the sake of “interfacing productively” with people who are caught fabricating information, lying about other people, and refusing to engage with the disagreements that they have with other people with sincerity or an openness to being wrong, is a strategic mistake and will cost countless hours of labor that is derailed from doing actually important work. I am doing my part in treating people with the respect they deserve and wreckers deserve little to none in my experience as an organizer.
I’m also not really interested in relitigating our last interaction, but I know I’m not the only user that got the same vibe from your comments, and I don’t think that is what straw manning is but you kind of do some straw manning there yourself by first asking me if I have direct connections with people in Venezuela, a very specific question, but later commented this: “I have direct connections to several overseas communist orgs. Did I just do a fed? Seems like it isn’t a particular risk to say that.”
answering a much less specific and entirely different question “do you have any connections to any overseas communist orgs?” which is not the question you asked me. you straw manned yourself there, changing the original premise to another and then acting like what I thought was unreasonable because of a different thing entirely than what you asked me. Do you see what I’m saying here? do you see how you asked me a specific personal questions about my personal connections to a specific place and then acted like it was unreasonable because you were willing to say pretty much nothing at all about your connections to anything specific at all? do you see how those are different but you intentionally presented them as the same to justify your perspective that I was being unreasonable?
yes Chana, I have connections with people somewhere, is that all you wanted to hear when you asked me about my personal relationship to Venezuelan organizers? Didn’t really seem like it but I guess that is somehow my bad.
I think these kinds of interactions have been pretty common in the news mega
I know they aren’t unique to me, that is why I do that here. I am participating in the culture here in the way that makes sense to me. I’m able to say what I can’t say in organizing to the people that deserve it, because I don’t have to be a professional organizer here, I’m just another anonymous liberal in a sea of the only real revolutionaries to ever exist. I can defend evidence based analysis and solidarity with revolutionary movements against people who are cowards and liars, without holding back. I’ve had comments moderated before and I trust they will be if I cross the line, but otherwise hexbear allows me to present my arguments, and argue them, and even point out when other people are lying and their arguments don’t make any sense. Doing that here is something I want to do because I think it is good for other, inexperienced organizers, to see. When I was first getting radicalized, seeing the arguments laid out and contested online was the only space to see any discussion on most topics at all. once I got into actual organizing work, most organizing spaces were totally unsafe to try to defend any former socialist movement because they were dominated by anarchists, dem socs, trots, and maoists. Outing yourself as a supporter of almost any historical revolutionary movement got you pinned as a “tankie” and that comes with a lot of stigma with those various radlibs cosplaying as revolutionaries.
now I am incredibly luckily to be able to work with almost no white people and very few men in a very large and robust project that every person there would ridicule the shit out of some loser like the ones here, while also out organizing them in every way, and just being a better person from the inside out. it would be a bonding exercise for us to talk shit about the absolutely trash takes these people have while making sure that everyone we work in coalition with knows who is snooping around our community spreading vitriol. Every week a new micro group of 2 ultras tries to prey on college kids here and start some new reading group where they try and teach people what is correct instead of how to come to correct conclusions on their own, because they can’t get into the legitimate organizations in this area because every one of them knows how to vet a recruit and keep out these types of people. and every week we clown on those people because they deserve it, and it brings us closer together as we actually do the work that those clowns will never be involved with because no one in the real world wants to talk to them after they get to know them.
no, I am correct.
I don’t know what you think I said you were incorrect about, but go off I guess. I thought I was clear on this part of the topic.
communicating constructively critically with comrades,
yeah but they aren’t comrades, that is the point. I have made this clear, why do so many people here just glaze over what I am saying without reading it?
How do I communicate constructively with someone who has blocked me because they don’t want to read what I said and instead want to make shit up? Because they crash out and say really wild shit online when people disagree with them? look at my original posts with all these people, I was very constructive. why do I have to be the only one to keep that up? these people are peddlers of misinformation, conspiracies, and metaphysical analysis. every argument they have presented has been debunked and they refuse to even try to debunk the arguments of others, instead relying entirely on insults and lies. do you really think we need to “be civil” with these people in perpetuity?
I’m not interested in a discussion about what it means to interface with wreckers and reactionaries more productively
In my one actual example of unproductive engagement, you were engaging with me. So are you indirectly just calling me a wrecker or reactionary?
I do think the logic you’ve listed is explanatory of the behavior either way, though. Also not unique to you. The other person is at the extreme opposite, they’re the enemy. I don’t think anyone would take this seriously given that it would seemingly apply to someone like Awoo, but defending such demonization is a part of justifying abusive behavior.
which is why I can only really talk about my own experience here with engaging with those wreckers and make a case for why I choose to approach wreckers in that way.
Using “wreckers” in this way is a larp and means nothing. It is even less applicable to Hexbear than when I make allusions to how functional cadre have social discipline.
I was already clear I don’t initiate with anyone as if they are already wreckers, but if you are organizing and wreckers are afoot, allowing them space to wreck in the sake of “interfacing productively” with people who are caught fabricating information, lying about other people, and refusing to engage with the disagreements that they have with other people with sincerity or an openness to being wrong, is a strategic mistake and will cost countless hours of labor that is derailed from doing actually important work.
We are on a leftist shift posting site. Spending time here dumping on other users is surely more derailing of this actually important work than them simply existing and saying things could be, if that is the tradeoff. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that any amount of time spent on this website is anything other than a decision to be taking a break from actually important work. If the time spent here is being slotted under doing that work in any way, then my points on how to engage with others here stands. And, again, it is by no means just you, I am only responding to the “no that doesn’t apply to me” responses.
I do think that every person on this website that has treated others poorly has rationalized the others, hyperbolically, as enemies.
I’m also not really interested in relitigating our last interaction, but I know I’m not the only user that got the same vibe from your comments
“I’m not interesting in relitigating, now let’s relitigate that one person agreed with me”. Sheesh.
and I don’t think that is what straw manning is
I don’t believe you seriously thought I was asking you to haul a Venezuelan out to talk to me. That was just an exaggeration for effect to avoid giving a direct answer.
but you kind of do some straw manning there yourself by first asking me if I have direct connections with people in Venezuela, a very specific question, but later commented this: “I have direct connections to several overseas communist orgs. Did I just do a fed? Seems like it isn’t a particular risk to say that.”
- I consistently asked about having information via connections to communist groups, not just random people in Venezuela. This is because we can all read Orinoco and websites by commune organizers and that information is insufficient to support the claims that were being made. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
- The part you just quoted was in response to oliveoil, not you. You’re not making any sense.
which is not the question you asked me. you straw manned yourself there, changing the original premise to another and then acting like what I thought was unreasonable because of a different thing entirely than what you asked me. Do you see what I’m saying here?
I do but that isn’t what a straw man is and I don’t see validity in the complaint. I address it after the next quote.
do you see how you asked me a specific personal questions about my personal connections to a specific place
The only thing missing from my example, which again was in response to someone else, is a country rather than “overseas”. If this is your example - and it is not at all a straw man - I can mention one. Ties to communist groups in China, as an example. But to reiterate, I’m not hounding you for a ‘yes’ or ‘no’, and didn’t back then either. I was just pointing out my own comfort level and how it feels like a reasonable thing to ask, not that I demand you give me that information - I would have respected “I won’t ansewr that” or just ignoring me. I pushed back on evasive responses, straw men, petty accusations.
and then acted like it was unreasonable because you were willing to say pretty much nothing at all about your connections to anything specific at all? do you see how those are different but you intentionally presented them as the same to justify your perspective that I was being unreasonable?
It’s actually just me giving an example of how I don’t feel it is a significant infosec issue to ask, let alone one meriting calling someone else a fed or cop, and… again that response wasn’t even to you, unless you are saying oliveoil is your alt.
yes Chana, I have connections with people somewhere, is that all you wanted to hear when you asked me about my personal relationship to Venezuelan organizers? Didn’t really seem like it but I guess that is somehow my bad.
Again I didn’t press you for the information, just an honest response. I am not asking you the question now. I actually got a sufficient answer to my underlying question just from how that interaction went down. Sometimes you can get all you need just from trying to have a direct conversation, even with no resolution.
I know they aren’t unique to me, that is why I do that here. I am participating in the culture here in the way that makes sense to me. I’m able to say what I can’t say in organizing to the people that deserve it […]
An inconsistency. The logic of whether your perceived enemies (other hexbear users professing communist things) “deserve it” is a distraction from whether it is strategic communication that builds (as opposed to constructive criticism) rather than bait and personal attack. You defensively lashed out at me, so I know for certain that your estimates on who “deserves it” are faulty.
now I am incredibly luckily to be able to work with almost no white people and very few men in a very large and robust project that every person there would ridicule the shit out of some loser like the ones here, while also out organizing them in every way, and just being a better person from the inside out. it would be a bonding exercise for us to talk shit about the absolutely trash takes these people have while making sure that everyone we work in coalition with knows who is snooping around our community spreading vitriol.
Do you directly call coalition members fabricators and liars in coalition meetings? I don’t see the relevance of any of this re: hexbear. You are simultaneously presenting public communications here as analogous to insider shit-talking while also being an external coalition context where the wreckers and enemies all exist to be righteously categorized and insulted.
I don’t know what you think I said you were incorrect about, but go off I guess. I thought I was clear on this part of the topic.
You were responding to me saying this “Unserious behavior that would not be tolerated in most communist orgs.” I am responding to the entirety of your two paragraphs there trying to build on analogies of intra-org, inter-org, etc contexts to seemingly justify how actually these negative interactions are not at all in contradiction of discipline in a functional org, but that’s mostly irrelevant, per my explanation.
How do I communicate constructively with someone who has blocked me because they don’t want to read what I said and instead want to make shit up?
If they blocked you then neither form of communication is really on the table any longer. I cannot give constructive feedbck to that without interrogating the block and to be honest I don’t think either of us expect repair of “relationships” via these usernames. The damage is already done, the tendency to create micro-factions (to the extent this is a real thing on a shitposting site) has already kicked off from it. That is a common outcome of this kind of communication prior to the block.
Because they crash out and say really wild shit online when people disagree with them? look at my original posts with all these people, I was very constructive. why do I have to be the only one to keep that up?
Well, while it sucks, this is basically the neverending responsibility of cadre. The thing we spend the most effort on is having strategic conversations when we know the other person or people are wrong in 10 different ways. I don’t require you to take on an unfair burden in this, but if you’r saying it’s 200% more communist to be interacting this way, I say it is the exact opposite. I can look over those other conversations again and try to understand them as best I can - do you just mean the ones you linked in this thread - but I do have to note that my personal experience already gives one data point in the opposite direction.
these people are peddlers of misinformation, conspiracies, and metaphysical analysis.
I can guarantee some of your positions include all of those things as well. None of us have all of the right takes, nor are free from the tendency to adopt opinions before having good enough information. I am not trying to simply equate, as that would require diving into all of the specifics, but I would suggest having at lesat as much grace for others as you expect for yourself is a good thing to model.
every argument they have presented has been debunked and they refuse to even try to debunk the arguments of others, instead relying entirely on insults and lies. do you really think we need to “be civil” with these people in perpetuity?
I’m not appealing to civility.
So are you indirectly just calling me a wrecker or reactionary?
No I’m not, there are plenty of people here I’ve openly disagreed with, the wrecker behavior is when we get into the types of actions I’ve already described at length and continually point out as it happens.
When it comes to anyone individually, i have been up front about what I think, it hasn’t felt indirect
Call it larp all you want, I deal with people like this more in the real world than I do online and I’m glad to be able to identify who are truly foes and who are committed to a revolutionary struggle greater than themselves. I’m thankful the failures of the past have helped to avoid more loss from these types of people. Navigating the reality that most of the Westernized leftists you’ll meet in the real world are actually going to betray their self proclaimed beliefs for personal gain has a steep learning curve. When people take such intense stances on things they don’t know about, and the stances are so clearly wrong and without material evidence, they are saying a lot about themselves as individuals.
I’m pretty openly poking fun at my own masochistic desire to be this way on hexbear, and taking breaks from work is a good thing to do. Are you suggesting that taking any breaks is some betrayal of the important work? This purity stuff is a big part of the problem, as many have pointed out. I’m here doing this because I want to, it’s something I like to do, despite most of my faves being pushed out due to Zionism and white supremacy, I’m still here clocking for a little while longer. Hopefully others will keep it up when I inevitably lose interest and move on to other things, otherwise hexbear will be dominated by reddit tier takes as the many great users here slowly get tired of the bullshit.
The part you just quoted was in response to oliveoil, not you. You’re not making any sense.
You are really saying there is no correlation between what you are saying in that comment and what you had just been saying to me in the same thread before? You really can’t see how what I said makes sense?
Not really sure how to engage without the ability to understand each other. You are making a lot of assumptions, misinterpreting what I’ve said, putting words in my mouth… And you are presenting it all in a way that feels very pedantic. If you want to apply the same fervor to the actual topic at hand I will engage with that but the attempt at meta analysis would need more mutual understanding to be fruitful.
I’ve written a lot now about what my actual positions are, why, and provided counter arguments to every one that I could. I did most of this in an entirely comradely manner and no one who disagree has really even tried to engage with it.
For me this is all an exercise is practicing dialectical materialist analysis and applying it within a space where others utilize the same framework and also have a sense of humor. It’s like a leftish news source and a puzzle in one, but instead of a crossword it’s simulator for Marxist analysis and sometimes debate. I get to do mini research projects over the course of weeks where I am studying a subject, writing regularly about it and refining my understanding as information is discovered that changes the calculus. I’m actually trying to learn what is going on and get all the data and become educated so that I can have better political positions, be better at educating my comrades and the masses, and helping to elevate the voices of the people who are being silenced by white supremacy and imperialism. It feels like a productive use of my time to stay current on what is going on day to day and practice forming my own opinions based on evidence I have, and it’s really cool and affirming when other people do the same thing independently and we come to the same conclusions.
This is why it is so frustrating to see people doing the opposite over and over again. If they were applying a marxist framework to prove their positions it would be contributing to the overall culture in a positive way, but by rejecting that entirely they are normalizing a subculture of just purely vibes wish casting which is inherently anti-marxist and kind of ruins the vibe for those of us actually trying to contribute utilizing dialectical materialism.
My read for a few years now is that post chavez the venezuelan government were larpers and not actually socialist. Maduro wasnt good, delcy isnt good and now the us has their claws in venezuela so its over.
The venezuelan peoples general take away is that socialism is bad despite fighting against it for its entirety and never really knowing it. Most dont know Marx or care. Just bc youre from a country doesnt mean youre an authority on it, ex. MAGA have no business in any serious discussion. Anti-left venezuelans are the same with the political memory of a goldfish. Venezuela always sucked and always had immense problems, hence the desire for socialism but these people will tell you a place with 60%-80% illiteracy rate and high poverty rates was actually good.
Its a complete failure. Maduro probably sold his country out.
This is a more rational take than the ones who are constantly trying to blame a single figurehead of the government for all the problems. Venezuela has always been a weak socialist nation that has struggled because of their lack of follow through in their own affairs, going back to Chavez. Never supporting Venezuela makes more sense than saying you did support them and then changing course in 2026
Venezuelans were highly resistant to socialism straight from the get go and a lot of the boug’s abandoned ship right away doing a wealth/brain drain that fucked them pretty bad ontop of Chavez dying too soon, america sanction/embargoing, idiot opportunist leadership and a population that voted for socialism but never actually understood it.
i think it’s okay to support them and come to jesus on it now, venezuela fucked it up and honestly it’ll probably fuck Cuba up too.
quite honestly, the whole situation has put me in the mindset that good things will never happen and that all i can do is just try to enjoy my life before it’s over.
I’ve listened and read a lot of interviews with Chavistas on the ground and they cite Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Minh, and others regularly. Years of sanctions has made governing a barely existing nation incredibly difficult, and they didn’t repress their opposition enough from the get go, nor did they diversify their economy enough or focus enough on domestic production. It is all in hind sight, who knows how realistic these were as options if they thought of them at the time. Its not like they took over an already successful and powerful nation, they took over a neo colonial outpost that was run terribly from inception.
I think comparing it to Cuba is a good comparison because it isn’t that they personally gave up on their movement, but both nations have been under embargo and sanctions for so long that they are truly just unable to function as a basic state. both nations can’t provide basic life needs to their people, for decades. there isn’t much they could have done to make this any different, and they certainly were trying. it’s not like Assad in Syria who we can look back to and see kind of gave up a long time ago, we really can’t say that about Cuba or Venezuela despite the failures.
quite honestly, the whole situation has put me in the mindset that good things will never happen and that all i can do is just try to enjoy my life before it’s over.
trying to enjoy your life is better than being a doomer about it but I believe in the people and can’t give up on our inevitable success, even if I don’t get to see it myself in this lifetime.
I know a lot of venezuelans personally and every single one of them doesnt know marx and hates Chavez/Maduro. Like theyre kind of just idiots, they dont care about anything and are easily swayed by social media Gusano in florida with shiny teeth saying Socialism Bad.
The difference with Venezuela and vietnam, russia, china, cuba is that they fought for their revolution. The venezuelan people again never really understood socialism and never understood why they needed to fight.
Venezuelan voted for theirs without knowing what socialism was or what it entails and right, they never did anything meaningful with their opposition. Infact they kind of let their bougs come and go from the US and Venezuela.
They will learn now with the US claws embedded in Venezuela
idk “venezuelans are just idiots” isn’t really compelling for me personally but if thats what drives your perspective go off i guess
Same way that Americans are idiots
Are the Venezuelans you know immigrants? The Venezuelan diaspora is more liberal and reactionary than people in Venezuela itself. Notoriously, even, in LatAm, where they do embarrassing pro-US protests and have to get shouted down by local leftists.
I do not know whether the masses in Venezuela are particularly in top of socialist theory or geopolitics (clearly many Chavistas and communes are), but it would not be a massive issue if they were not. Socialist parties in leadership have the task of not just education but of focusing on the needs of the population and enjoining them in struggle. That seems to happen in Venezuela, though the struggle is likely a harder battle due to the prevalence of bourgeois interests. Communes have to be their own enforcers on many issues, like physically and coercively.
It’s important to remember that these are common struggles, not a post-mortem on “what went wrong”. Largely speaking I don’t think folks here know much about what has actually been happening on the ground in order to state what was a mistake or not. But the important thing is that this is not simply an internal organizing issue of PSUV or its leadership, but a wider struggle against imperialism with many factions and good struggles that are not guaranteed to win even if they had taken the best steps possible. A neocolonized country transformed into an export economy by imperialists has an uphill battle to assert even modest levels of sovereignty. Their “crime” that led to mass sanctions and decades of pressure campaigns was nationalizing the oil industry rather than continuing to be foreign-owned and proceeds expropriated, not the specifics of how they organize government or society. And that struggle continues, it is not over.
Every single one is green card status and came within the last ten years
Puppets
🤦♂️🙄
