• merc@sh.itjust.works
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    8 months ago

    So when you jaywalk you’re an illegal pedestrian

    Sure, that’s not a term anybody really uses though.

    when you do a rolling stop at a stop sign you’re an illegal driver

    No, an illegal driver is a driver without a license. It’s a pretty widely used term. There’s also “illegal doctor” for people who are practicing medicine without a license. Normally when the term is used it’s not for a brief violation of the law, but for a persistent status.

    So what kinds of illegal are you?

    If you think “illegal pedestrian” is a thing, I’ve been that pretty often, but I’ve never been caught. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 months ago

      The point is that an illegal immigrant makes it sound like the human being themselves is illegal. Literally the law they broke is on the same level as jay walking. That’s why people shouldn’t be using the dehumanizing term illegal immigrant.

      However, I think you already understood that.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        an illegal immigrant makes it sound like the human being themselves is illegal

        No it doesn’t, that’s why the word “immigrant” is there, to describe what the illegal thing was. So, an illegal doctor is a doctor who doesn’t have a license. An illegal motorist is someone who is driving a car without a license. Nobody thinks that the human being is “illegal” whatever that means, it’s the immigration that was illegal.

        Literally the law they broke is on the same level as jay walking

        No, it’s not. Has anybody ever been removed from a country when they’ve been caught jay walking? Even a fine is extremely rare. Being in a country illegally is a more serious offense by a pretty large margin.

        However, I think you already understood that.

        I understood that some people trot out those terrible arguments, but I don’t think even they actually believe them.

        • Drusas@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          Yes, it does. That’s the whole point of why it’s bad to use the word “illegal” as a noun to describe people. And that’s why people do so. Dehumanization. They’re not an illegal immigrant. They’re “an illegal”. Barely even a person.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            That’s the whole point of why it’s bad to use the word “illegal” as a noun

            We’re talking about using the word illegal as an adjective: “illegal immigrant”. Immigrant is a noun, illegal is an adjective.

        • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 months ago

          Nobody thinks that the human being is “illegal” whatever that means, it’s the immigration that was illegal.

          If you honestly think this, you’re not paying attention.

          Has anybody ever been removed from a country when they’ve been caught jay walking?

          What kind of argument is this? Jay walking and littering are on the same level, has a jay walker ever been forced to go back and pick up their litter? Cmon, you’re smart enough to understand that different crimes can be at the same level, and still have different punishments.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            If you honestly think this, you’re not paying attention.

            I’m aware that there is a lot of discrimination against immigrants, both illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. But, that discrimination isn’t caused by referring to them by an accurate term.

            What kind of argument is this?

            It’s a response to the stupid statement “Literally the law they broke is on the same level as jay walking”, which is clearly not true.

            has a jay walker ever been forced to go back and pick up their litter

            What does litter have to do with jay walking. Do you even understand what jay walking is?

            different crimes can be at the same level, and still have different punishments

            No… that’s what makes the “level” different. A crime that is punished more severely is at a more severe “level” than one that isn’t. Come on, this isn’t rocket surgery…

            • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              8 months ago

              Oh lordy.

              So the dehumanizing term should be used because it’s not the reason people are dehumanizing the people.

              Are you can fan of racial slurs by chance? Because “it’s just an accurate word for black people” is something racists say about certain words as well.

              What does litter have to do with jay walking.

              What does leaving the country have to do with jay walking?…

              I’m simply using your own flawed logic. And you’re proving my point.

              How exactly is rectifying the law broken a harsher punishment? How would it make any sense to just charge them a fine and let them be on their way? That’s like saying you should just fine someone littering and then ignore the fact that they are continuing to actively litter.

              • merc@sh.itjust.works
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                8 months ago

                So the dehumanizing term

                It’s not a dehumanizing term. That’s ridiculous.

                What does leaving the country have to do with jay walking?…

                Nothing. Is your brain mushy?

                • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  8 months ago

                  Weird, because this was you up the chain a little:

                  Has anybody ever been removed from a country when they’ve been caught jay walking?

                  So which is it?

                  It’s not a dehumanizing term. That’s ridiculous.

                  The majority of the country disagrees.

                  • merc@sh.itjust.works
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                    8 months ago

                    So which is it?

                    It’s the same consistent thing: Jaywalking is not punished as severely as illegal immigration, because it’s not on the same “level”.

                    The majority of the country disagrees.

                    Which country, because definitely not the USA.

        • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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          8 months ago

          >No, it’s not. Has anybody ever been removed from a country when they’ve been caught jay walking? Even a fine is extremely rare. Being in a country illegally is a more serious offense by a pretty large margin.

          what makes you think anyone is in the country illegally? in america, people are entitle to a trial by a jury of their peers when they are accused of a crime. it looks to me like the accusation is just that, and you’ll forgive me if i don’t believe the government without proof.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            what makes you think anyone is in the country illegally?

            Do you understand what illegal immigration means?

            in america, people are entitle to a trial by a jury of their peers when they are accused of a crime

            Illegal street racers are members of the group who race cars illegally on the street. Any person accused of that crime deserves their day in court. But, that doesn’t change the fact that we know illegal street racing happens, and therefore there exist illegal street racers. Similarly, any individual person accused of illegal immigration deserves their day in court, but when referring to the group of people who have illegally immigrated into the US, “illegal immigrants” is a perfectly reasonable label.

            Unless you’re saying that you’re not convinced that anybody has ever violated immigration law, so “illegal immigration” is a myth?

            • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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              8 months ago

              >Unless you’re saying that you’re not convinced that anybody has ever violated immigration law, so “illegal immigration” is a myth?

              i haven’t seen compelling evidence about it. but i will say i think borders are immoral and i know my duty vis-a-vis immoral laws.

      • SparrowRanjitScaur@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        There’s the act of crossing the border illegally, and then there’s the act of being in a country without a valid visa. Obviously when people talk about illegal immigration they’re generally talking about the second case.

    • Drusas@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      “Illegal driver” and “illegal doctor” are also terms that nobody uses.