And no, I’m not saying don’t vote; I’m saying that there comes a point when voting isn’t going to solve the problem

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    4 months ago

    So you’re saying a “moderate liberal” who supports genocide is more of a fascist than a “tankie”? Or would you call them a “tankie” for saying theyre on the left but openly supporting genocide, siccing police on peaceful protestors, and immediately cutting off any voter/media/politicians who disagree with them?

    Sxomeone that openly refuses to step aside unless “lord God” tells them? Someone that insists they’re the only one that can save the country, and if they don’t personally win the country is over.

    Would you call them “tankie” or fascist?

    • dactylotheca@suppo.fiOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      So you’re saying a “moderate liberal” who supports genocide is more of a fascist than a “tankie”?

      I’m not saying anything like that: you’re saying that.

      What I was saying is that fascism is its own kind of ideology, and although yes it’s been pretty fluid over the years, the hallmarks are authoritarian capitalism, emphasis on private enterprise, social Darwinism (supporting “the strong” and loathing “the weak”), misogyny, and the hatred and outright murder of the Other (jews, foreigners, LGBT+ people, people with the wrong religion, people with no religion, whoever).

      Lots of folks fit the mold even without necessarily realizing it.

      Would you call them “tankie” or fascist?

      A tankie is an authoritarian communist. Your hypothetical person doesn’t seem to support communism nor be a leftist, and it’s kinda hard to say if they’re a fascist or not just based on what you wrote. Fascist-adjacent maybe but 🤷

      • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        Don’t bother. These people LOVE rewriting your narrative. It’s the only way they can win arguments.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        4 months ago

        What I was saying is that fascism is its own kind of ideology, and although yes it’s been pretty fluid over the years, the hallmarks are authoritarian capitalism, emphasis on private enterprise, social Darwinism (supporting “the strong” and loathing “the weak”), misogyny, and the hatred and outright murder of the Other (jews, foreigners, people with the wrong religion, people with no religion, whoever).

        Well, if you lump misogyny in with other bigotry like it should be…

        That’s a pretty good description of “moderate Dems” and Joe Biden’s entire 2024 campaign specifically.

        My point is, breaking it all up into every slice getting it’s own special name is ridiculous and just confuses people.

        But I don’t think you’re going to magically start understanding any of this if I keep replying.

        • dactylotheca@suppo.fiOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          4 months ago

          My point is, breaking it all up into every slice getting it’s own special name is ridiculous and just confuses people.

          You seriously think it’s less confusing to use a well-established political term incorrectly for everything that’s even a little bit authoritarian, and that calling different systems by their own and well-established terms is confusing? This is just your version of reich-wingers calling everyone to the left of Goebbels a “socialist” because they can’t be bothered to learn about politics.

          And I’m supposedly the dim one here?

          • Infynis@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            4 months ago

            This is just your version of reich-wingers calling everyone to the left of Goebbels a “socialist” because they can’t be bothered to learn about politics.

            That’s exactly what it is. And if they weren’t so obviously a troll, they could have actually made an interesting point.

            The difference is that the meaning of words actually matters to people on the left. While, yes, the right does benefit from easier organization because they can all just yell the same thing, the reason is because they all know that the real point in bigotry and cruelty. The specifics don’t matter as long as the Party wins, and the Other suffers

            This is why you see so many “people” making both sides arguments. You can convince people on the left of things, because we care about words, so these arguments only harm our candidates, even if, on the surface, they seem balanced

            • dactylotheca@suppo.fiOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              4 months ago

              And if they weren’t so obviously a troll

              Is it obvious? Honest question, I can’t tell. I assumed they’re just a regular person with very stupid opinions

              • Infynis@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                4 months ago

                I mean, they’re literally trying to dilute the meaning fascism, which is sure to only benefit fascists. And they’re basically doing the both sides thing as well. The goal seems to be to convince us that Biden is just as bad as Trump, which is not even close to the truth, and, as I said, only hurts the left, because it convinced people not to vote. If they’re not a troll, they’re a sucker regurgitating rightwing cons

                • dactylotheca@suppo.fiOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  I mean, they’re literally trying to dilute the meaning fascism, which is sure to only benefit fascists.

                  Oh yeah they definitely are, I just didn’t take it as trolling, but as a stupid person having stupid opinions and saying stupid things. Not that it makes a difference in the end, an idjit is an idjit

              • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                4 months ago

                They’re a well known troll. Yes. They constantly misinterpret your point purposefully so they can win the argument. It’s like building straw men out of the words of others.

                Most of them do this.

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      No liberal supports genocide. It’s been explained to you time and again. The problem with debating you is that everyone has to wade through the bullshit world you created just to get back to the reality where the actual things happen.

      NO LIBERAL SUPPORTS GENOCIDE.

      Stop making up bullshit and stating it as a fact. It does nothing but dilute the point of any discussion you’re in.

      We support Biden over Trump because we feel curable cancer is a better option than an incurable one. And unlike you, we also understand how nuance works within the context of political events. We don’t just make shit up so that we can win arguments.

      Maybe try it? Or are you that afraid to give up the commonality you share with MAGA?