I know you’re being facetious but Florida’s mental healthcare system is abhorrently managed and funded. If it’s not the worst in the US we’re easily top 5. Especially for Baker Acts (involuntary admission to a psych facility), which he is. If you so much as blink at a cop or mention you’re depressed in the wrong way to a doctor you get locked up for 72 hours. It’s often traumatic, rarely does anything to help people in distress and leaves you thousands of dollars in the hole at the end of it.
This isn’t entirely true. More than just cops can place people under a baker act and they need to believe that the person they are placing under a baker act as a result of a mental illness is a threat to themself or others, or the person is incapable of caring for themself. And in the context of “locked up” it doesn’t mean jail and it is not 72 hours, it’s up to 72 hours.
That doesn’t mean cops don’t use it inappropriately but if it is obviously inappropriate once they see a doctor, a doctor can override it. On the opposite end, if it is a valid baker act that is still a threat to themselves or others at the end of that 72 hours, they can be l placed under another one with no limit on how many times they can be placed under a baker act. Tho a cop should never be in the situation to keep someone under multiple baker acts.
The rest of your comment about being traumatic and not helpful, yeah… that sounds accurate.
I’m an EMT in Florida. Cops and doctors both baker act people for bullshit reasons all the time. I had a lady that was suffering from a bad migraine, she told the doctor something to the tune of “it hurts so much I want to die”. Obviously being hyperbolic. She got baker acted. I have a thousand stories just like hers. Cops will baker act people for being drunk and they just didn’t feel like processing them at the jail.
I can’t think of a single time a doctor has overridden a BA. If the cop drops them off at the ER, they sit around until a psych facility has a bed open (that alone can take days because they’re often at capacity). If they take them straight to the psych facility, they get punted off to the ER for BS reasons for “medical clearing” which just means the nursing staff didn’t feel like taking on another patient and wants to delay it for as long as they can.
Because inpatient psych is so underfunded and understaffed, it’s far more likely than not the patients will stay the.whole 72 hours than not, and often times it can be longer if they’re “still a threat to themselves/others”. What “no longer a threat” means to you and I isn’t what it means to these facilities. They just pump you full of anxiolitics, antipsychotics, or sedatives and send you on your way in a couple of days with a followup appointment. The case load on the doctor’s at these facilities is so large people essentially have to stay the full time if they’re going to be cleared.
I could go on for days about the myriad of fucked up things that happen to these people who have the misfortune of being baker acted. It helps some people sure. But only in the sense that some of those people wanted to die and they’re so drugged out of their minds that they forgot they were suicidal in the first place. I’m being slightly dramatic but I hesitate to give this system any credit because it’s done far more harm than it ever will help
Just to be clear I’m agreeing with most of what you’re saying. And on the topic, I’m a Paramedic in Florida. Currently working for a ground agency as an advanced practice paramedic and hold a board certification as a flight paramedic.
From my original comment, yeah sometimes it isn’t used appropriately but you are oversimplifying the process. Now don’t get me wrong the process and system is messed up and has definitely caused harm but your experience isn’t the entire system. Do cops baker act people that are drunk? Yes, It happens but no competent law enforcement officer would baker act someone because they are drunk, they would place them under a marchman act instead. But that’s a different topic that is just as messed up but it’s not the same thing.
Doctors absolutely override them all the time for medical reason, I’ve had patients who were hypoxic in full blown CHF who got baker acted because they were talking nonsense and unable to care for herself. The cops thought it was psych issues, they aren’t medical. I get there and the patient was talking nonsense because her SpO2 was 70%. Same with sepsis and stroke patients.
This also extends to the “medical clearance” you were referring to. Psych facility are not medical facilities, some are both but before going for psych treatment medical causes of whatever lead to the baker act needs to be ruled out.
I am agreeing with most of your other statements, under staffed, under funded, high case loads so yeah people can just get loaded up with meds and sent on their way.
I know you’re being facetious but Florida’s mental healthcare system is abhorrently managed and funded. If it’s not the worst in the US we’re easily top 5. Especially for Baker Acts (involuntary admission to a psych facility), which he is. If you so much as blink at a cop or mention you’re depressed in the wrong way to a doctor you get locked up for 72 hours. It’s often traumatic, rarely does anything to help people in distress and leaves you thousands of dollars in the hole at the end of it.
This isn’t entirely true. More than just cops can place people under a baker act and they need to believe that the person they are placing under a baker act as a result of a mental illness is a threat to themself or others, or the person is incapable of caring for themself. And in the context of “locked up” it doesn’t mean jail and it is not 72 hours, it’s up to 72 hours.
That doesn’t mean cops don’t use it inappropriately but if it is obviously inappropriate once they see a doctor, a doctor can override it. On the opposite end, if it is a valid baker act that is still a threat to themselves or others at the end of that 72 hours, they can be l placed under another one with no limit on how many times they can be placed under a baker act. Tho a cop should never be in the situation to keep someone under multiple baker acts.
The rest of your comment about being traumatic and not helpful, yeah… that sounds accurate.
I’m an EMT in Florida. Cops and doctors both baker act people for bullshit reasons all the time. I had a lady that was suffering from a bad migraine, she told the doctor something to the tune of “it hurts so much I want to die”. Obviously being hyperbolic. She got baker acted. I have a thousand stories just like hers. Cops will baker act people for being drunk and they just didn’t feel like processing them at the jail.
I can’t think of a single time a doctor has overridden a BA. If the cop drops them off at the ER, they sit around until a psych facility has a bed open (that alone can take days because they’re often at capacity). If they take them straight to the psych facility, they get punted off to the ER for BS reasons for “medical clearing” which just means the nursing staff didn’t feel like taking on another patient and wants to delay it for as long as they can.
Because inpatient psych is so underfunded and understaffed, it’s far more likely than not the patients will stay the.whole 72 hours than not, and often times it can be longer if they’re “still a threat to themselves/others”. What “no longer a threat” means to you and I isn’t what it means to these facilities. They just pump you full of anxiolitics, antipsychotics, or sedatives and send you on your way in a couple of days with a followup appointment. The case load on the doctor’s at these facilities is so large people essentially have to stay the full time if they’re going to be cleared.
I could go on for days about the myriad of fucked up things that happen to these people who have the misfortune of being baker acted. It helps some people sure. But only in the sense that some of those people wanted to die and they’re so drugged out of their minds that they forgot they were suicidal in the first place. I’m being slightly dramatic but I hesitate to give this system any credit because it’s done far more harm than it ever will help
Just to be clear I’m agreeing with most of what you’re saying. And on the topic, I’m a Paramedic in Florida. Currently working for a ground agency as an advanced practice paramedic and hold a board certification as a flight paramedic.
From my original comment, yeah sometimes it isn’t used appropriately but you are oversimplifying the process. Now don’t get me wrong the process and system is messed up and has definitely caused harm but your experience isn’t the entire system. Do cops baker act people that are drunk? Yes, It happens but no competent law enforcement officer would baker act someone because they are drunk, they would place them under a marchman act instead. But that’s a different topic that is just as messed up but it’s not the same thing.
Doctors absolutely override them all the time for medical reason, I’ve had patients who were hypoxic in full blown CHF who got baker acted because they were talking nonsense and unable to care for herself. The cops thought it was psych issues, they aren’t medical. I get there and the patient was talking nonsense because her SpO2 was 70%. Same with sepsis and stroke patients.
This also extends to the “medical clearance” you were referring to. Psych facility are not medical facilities, some are both but before going for psych treatment medical causes of whatever lead to the baker act needs to be ruled out.
I am agreeing with most of your other statements, under staffed, under funded, high case loads so yeah people can just get loaded up with meds and sent on their way.