One of the best “all style” movies has to be:

“The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.”

Why did they need refurbishing if they weren’t broken?

Used coffee grinders get oily / have grinds inside that need cleaning. About half of them had a missing hopper, lid, knob, canister etc.

I have had a dozen+ BARATZAS, but only about 5 or so Encores.

Out of all of the machines I’ve had, I had one that had a failing motor, and one had a failed timer switch from someone forcing it to far. However I’ve replaced multiple timer switches because on 20 - 30 year old machines the new knobs don’t fit without changing the timer also (different shaft shape, same timer). It’s super cool that you can install the updated parts with no issues.

Once I had a machine where the wire had been knocked off the momentary micro switch.

A lot of the machines I’ve had have been heavily used… Like in a university break room or a corporate coffee area. Like probably equivalent to 5-10X what a home used would do.

Back around 2005-2010 I also owned one for my own use.

On the second one, the plastic burr collar broke and Baratza told me it was a common failure.

Isn’t that a $5 semi-external part that you can change without tools and without opening the machine? Like just twist off the hopper by hand and it’s accessible?

I’ve never fixed a broken Encore or Forte, I thought you were going to teach me what goes wrong on them.

So it’s the gears that break?

I know you said you have never even looked at the Forte, so how do you know they can be recommend as a BIFL grinder?

If this assessment is completely correct, we would be starting a long decline now with technical debt, hardly any sustainable energy projects, lots of infrastructure deferred maintenance, a whole civilization in overshoot and highly depenedent on a life support system running on depleting non renewable resources etc.

Basic observation would be that we failed to prepare for the end of growth in the most horrifying way possible.

However, the assessment could be way off. Perhaps he’s calling the peak 10 years too early.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

It seems as if we are setting an all time record for low ice this year.

https://nsidc.org/sea-ice-today/sea-ice-tools/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph

The previous record low was 3.4 million sq km. I think BOE is < 1 million.

The drop in the ice formation this year is a large amount. I think it’s so low that it’s at a level that wouldn’t have been expected before the 2030s based on the trend. You can really see on the chart how no other years have even been close to where we are today.

The Forte (Baratza’s semi-commercial model at around $800 new) might be a plausible BIFL grinder for the average person.

Interesting opinion.

What makes this a better grinder than the $60 Encore? Like how is it so vastly better?

https://www.baratza.com/en-us/product/100-120v-d-shaft-motor-for-flat-burr-grinders-sp0100771?sku=SP0100771

https://www.baratza.com/en-us/product/100-120v-motor-for-conical-burr-grinders-sp0100799?sku=SP0100799

Because they use the same internals. Same exact motor. Just has a different shape on the output shaft.

I wonder if the Forte breaks as easily as the Encore?

“One day a bridge collapsed, and no one came to fix it.”

There is possibly apocryphal story that when the Roman empire collapsed, it retreated slowly. You knew when it was gone from the practical details.

There is a subreddit called “shortages” on that other site, and the top posts right now are chips/ram (predictably) but also medicine, water, food, labor and basic equipment. Makes you wish a toilet paper shortage was your biggest problem.

Yeah, this piece is basically taking the subjective viewport of these elite lives.

Reading the piece kind of connected a couple of points.

I think that the process of Enshittification of the tech services and the plight of the Elites kind of bear some parallels for the same underlying reasons. Things decline when the expectations of continued growth are not met. So change happens but no matter what is intended the change brings decline instead of improvements.

The Elites are in the position where the economy used to prioritize their needs but no longer works for them.

You can just feel how frustrated they are and how ready they are to latch onto some new system. And these people are connected. They have pull.

Peter Turchin has a view around Elite Overproduction - where too many people are competing for elite positions.

He said that as the economy and the state fail and shrink, the failing institutions lose their “buffer” ability.

Its worth thinking about what he means by that.

My interpretation is that what he’s saying is that when there are not enough elite positions available, the elites who don’t have a place in the system still play the game up to some point, like the idea of getting a seat one day still keeps them invested.

However, as the state itself starts shrinking, these elites stop holding an ambition to join the ranks and they become a radicalized faction no longer supporting the institutions.

However, what he says is that the Elites are trained in system dynamics, economics, etc, and when they turn away from these institutions, they become a powerful radical class of dissidents and seek to undermine the institutions. They are ready to take a wrecking ball to all of it.

I feel that in many ways the Trump presidency made a move in the USA that was to bring in an entire new slate of elites (who had been left out), and they used that to claim power. Basically formed a tribe of outsiders and found it had a lot of supporters. And for many official non supporters, they still gained from the shake up. Trump was a wrecking ball and this created a wave of opportunity.

I think that they are taking their band on the road now.

There has always been a game of politicians wanting to arrange who could have a place at the money trough. And politicians can arrange their own positions or the positions of politicians from other countries.

In many ways you can see the Trump plan as a blueprint for how to build or maintain the elite share within decline. This is perhaps unsustainable but for the present moment you can see how it would attract some. The plan is to extract economic rent without creating anything of value.

The OP is in Canada.

The Canadian version of Timbuk2 would be PAC Designs, but PAC Designs are much higher quality and a bit more expensive also. They are professional level products. Literally every element on a PAC bag is higher quality… Fabric, stitching, hardware, straps, padding etc. PAC is literally top quality possible.

Getting ahold of these bags is a bit of a dark art (always has been) but I think they have a Facebook contact.

https://www.facebook.com/100064306441241/

Encore isn’t much of an espresso grinder either.

Incorrect. The encore has 40 grind size levels. It is literally an espresso grinder.

In the range of 1-20, the entire grind output adjustment is around 400 microns. The slope on the burr adjustment in these first 20 clicks is 80 degrees. The actual vertical movement of the burrs across the range is only 70 microns (or about 3.6 microns per click!!!), but because the plane between the burrs is angled, each click registers about 20 microns in grind fineness adjustment.

It might not be the best espresso grinder made but it’s the best entry level brand at this price. You will only be disappointed by comparing it to machines multiple times the cost. It is not a 5 star machine but its not terrible.

Do you know what the difference is? Between a general purpose grinder and an espresso grinder?

The OP was asking for a BIFL grinder with a maximum budget of $100.

Exactly. I use one during camping and when the power is out.

The skerton is a funny grinder where it makes a very consistent finer grind (like espresso levels), but does a lot worse for coarse grind (drip / french press / pour over) where it loses consistency when the burrs are further open.

Its exactly opposite of most hand grinders where its strong at the one thing that many cheaper manual grinders don’t get right.

I have a camping espresso press so it suits my scenario.

I resell electronics and a lot of related stuff so I have gone through a lot of items over my career. My insight into what breaks and what doesn’t comes from seeing hundreds of used items weekly. I’ve handled many many brands of grinders and refurbished a bunch of them. I have 2 Baratzas I’m selling right now and sold a Hario earlier today. I also sold another Baratza part this week.

I never claimed the Baratzas don’t ever break, but the motors last decades and everything else is cheap and simple on them, they are made to be serviced, which makes them extremely good value. This is why they are a good recommendation for the super cheap price. I know iof no sub $100 grinders that don’t have some problem eventually. Think of the price tag. A $60 grinder is dirt cheap.

Baratza Encores currently cost about $60-75 on eBay on the lower side of the price range That would be a used working machine covered by a money back guarantee. A couple have sold for just $50-55 in the past 90 days.

I don’t dispute some of what you’re saying about a commercial grinder like that $1200 Bunn G1, but that grinder only has 7 grind adjustment settings. It’s really not comparable to an espresso grinder. The special feature of the Bunn is grinding a pound of coffee in 30 seconds. Like you can’t get an espresso shot calibrated with that style of machine. Of course, that’s not a home machine and it’s not really designed for the purpose of a careful grind size / weight. However, end of the day, that grinder is $475 for a used model. If a Baratza lasts 20 years for $60, is a Bunn 10X as good?

Lazy. Weak argument.

No, I didn’t make it up.

Most people haven’t ever thought about this or checked their assumptions and biases. And I say that because you’re assuming I made it up but YOU don’t actually have the figures. Very interesting.

You want the citation or can you look it up all on your own?

I’ll give you a hint. Its very hard to find any citation that will compare defense to science in a direct way.

What you can easily do is find a number for the science spending as a percentage of GDP, and a number that gives you the defense budget with identical terms.

Once you check you are welcome to report back if you disagree.

So this will really require two citations and some critical thinking

[ * elsewhere I commented that we spend more on science in the USA than rhe transportation sector. Feel free to check that also, but again, you can’t read this anywhere except by asking the questions yourself.]

What would you recommend that not Baratza for a, sub-$100 grinder that’s repairable and maintainable?

Baratza grinders are not the nicest grinders known, but they do sell every part and you can replace the burrs.

Like I recently sold a KitchenAid double burr grinder that runs double the price of a Baratza Encore. New burrs are not available and all the parts of the KA are breakable glass and unobtainable for repairs. That to me seems crazy, but the flip side is that a $60 Encore is a screaming deal at that price level, for the features of being 100% repairable.

I’ve refurbished about a dozen Baratza grinders (many old and heavily used) but I have only ever seen one with a motor issue (worn brushes). The most common issues are damage to the plastic exterior parts from being dropped. The main mechanism is surprisingly durable.

Is there a better $60 grinder you’re aware of?

https://www.baratza.com/en-us/landing/product/parts

Part cost is VERY reasonable and they ship cheap and fast

As far as I can tell, the top line Baratza models use the same gearbox and motor as the base models

Baratza will sell you the main circuit board for under $15 and the gear box rebuild for like $10. In my opinion that’s admirable. Talking like BIFL ethics, the company obviously wants you to be able to repair any issues, versus being disposable.

( Silly question: why do you own a Skerton, and why isn’t it broken?)

For espresso or drip?

The only (finely adjustable) espresso grinders < $100 are probably going to be used or maybe Baratza brand. Baratza does sell many of the replacement parts online, but occasionally the designs get updated and older models can be hard to repair without having to change lots of internals. The models share a lot of their internal designs however and they are quite durable. Used baratza is around $60-75. Burrs can run $40.

Hario makes some good simple hand grinders that you can get new burrs for. The skerton model can screw onto a mason / ball wide mouth jar if you break the glass canister. They can usually make an okay espresso grind but definitely a tier below an electric machine for quality and speed. Hand grinders take about 3 minutes a shot if you are grinding finely. For drip grind levels these are fast enough.

There are plenty of good higher end grinders. I had a Rancilio Rocky that I got second hand, made in 1985, used multiple times daily for years and only needed a small repair to the Doser lever spring. I changed the burrs a couple of times and gave it to a friend and it’s still running perfectly as a 40 year old workhorse. Not fancy but quite solid. The only real weak point is some plastics on the case, but they sell replacements. The designs have been fairly maintained over the years and parts are available. I’m pretty sure that if I bought a new Rocky it would outlive me today. A used rocky is about $125 USD @ eBay, street price for new is about $275. They are not the most finely adjustable if you want to fully nerd out on espresso but you can make a damn good shot.

With all due respect, do you know that more money is spent on Science than the entire defense budget?

Like I take your point, but also it’s more complicated. I’d argue that zero science can be done without policing the worlds shipping lanes and supply chains. There is possibly a lot of waste corruption and destruction in the defense budget BUT…

Further down the comments in this very discussion someone starts talking about how Einstein and the theory of relativity began the development that causes the GPS grid.

I could advance an argument that ALL the current high technology is a product of public defense spending and not science funding. Like virtually all the technology inside the modern cell phone originated as defense spending that was then given over free of charge to large corporations to make consumer products and privatize the profits. (Touch screens computers, radio, satellites, GPS, the internet etc are from military).

Like, it’s not as pure an example as I think you’re hoping to make. There absolutely is a clear high return on investment on part of defense spending. A lot of pure science doesn’t create this kind of result.

I think it’s proof that we are civilizationally pretty broken that this could happen, but also it’s nice to look at it realistically and consider what this means about us.

When people first start looking for gold, they find giant nuggets just sitting there.

Then they use pans, horses and pickaxes to find chunks of gold in rivera and seams in the rock.

Then they build huge floating factories to dredge up entire landscapes and sift for tiny flecks of gold sand.

THEN they gather a massive amount of human slaves to gather host rock and process it with cyanide to leach the gold out of massive amounts of overburden.

At some point whatever new gold is left to go get takes the wealth you already have and lowers it. You will spend more gold mining than you will pull out of the ground. Nobody is saying you can’t go mine new gold today. It’s that it has a negative return on investment. This is beyond the inflection point. Many many things could go into the calculus for what it costs… Your technology, your price of energy, the degree of automation, etc. You might be able to play with your accounting for a long time and find corners of the planet that are favorable…

But to go mine for something that isn’t there and isn’t producing a return make you poor now. In reality / realistic terms this is now different.

So then you end up asking yourself: “what is this gold even for?” And that’s like looking into the abyss because our culture doesn’t have a collective meaning to organize society if this goes away.

Ok, so that’s an analogy. Science used to work, and everything is screaming that we are close to the end now.

Like every government, every company, all our organizations, they all depend on this facade continuing… And so the end of science is extremely damaging to the story we tell ourselves.

If that story were to go away we would have to ask some big questions

It sounds like you are positing that at a certain point, we should be happy with the fruit that we have and not build the next rung in the ladder since that ring is much more expensive than the last.

You almost understand my point.

It’s not JUST that it becomes MORE expensive (than before).

It becomes MORE expensive than THE RETURN. Ie, its actually dependent on the host body which it depletes like a parasitic relationship.

Therefore this acts as a collapse acceleration device.

This is not MY idea, I’m telling you what’s in the scientific literature of the study of collapse.

Like in the middle ages, they would have a whole class of clergy and they can build a beautiful basilica while people are diseased and starving. But it didn’t help their civilization survive. Most of these civilizations collapse due to internal damage to their culture of surviving BEFORE they trigger bio-physical scarcity. Its quite sobering. [ * read Peter Turchin and his theory of elite overproduction causing political economic collapse before physical collapse. The more unproductive members of the society are dependent on the society, the faster and more unstable the collapse becomes.)

Like the last Norse in Greenland didn’t outlive the seals. You get it?

This is why the collapse science people focus on complexity versus simplification

Thought experiment for you: Imagine that we cannot go out and look for any new solutions any more. We would therefore have to solve all our problems with what we already know how to do.

Would there be any point in kicking the can on solving our issues? Or would we need to get started right now? If we couldn’t invest in speculative solutions that will solve our problems tomorrow I think that a great deal of what’s going on today would immediately be suspect.

Like, we hold hope that we can find something NEW that will change how hard survival will be and what it will really cost us.

Precautionary principal today simply gets thrown out if we think we can fix our mistakes in the future.

This is how we created our systemic overshoot in the first place. This is why it pushes peoples buttons to even suggest that this is wrong… The illusion serves a purpose.