• TheFriar@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it I’ve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.

    It’s a complete oversimplification—and this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while it’s true of liberals because it’s a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), it’s also very true of what’s happening here.

    People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”

    It’s the same sickness that’s completely rotten in the US: a massive oversimplification for ease of allegiance to your stated party/ideals. This one is just painted communist and therefore is getting praised around here.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”

      This is a straight-up inversion of reality, literally nobody on Hexbear believes Russia is a communist country, do you seriously think we are unaware of the collapse of the Soviet Union or the fact Putin was one of the butchers of Russian communism? Ironically, it’s liberals who seem unaware of the soviet collapse and still thirty years later try to present Russians as being “ethnically-communist” or have you completely missed liberal rhetoric over the last year?

      Also “Ukraine = Nazis" isn’t an oversimplification, it’s an accurate description of current Ukrainian political economy, as this latest Waffen SS episode has so blatantly demonstrated

        • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          from every reputable source I can find, Ukraine’s nazi/far-right/white supremacist problem isn’t any more problematic than any other country in the world.

          In that case you’re not reading reputable sources.

          The (Neo-)Nazis in Ukraine fuelled a civil war that killed, injured, and displaced thousands for the better part of a decade. (14,000 deaths, 30,000+ injured, and over a million displaced.)

          For you to profess that you know what you’re talking about and conclude that Nazis in Ukraine are no worse than Nazis/the alt-right in any other country suggests at least four possibilities:

          1. You don’t know what you’re talking about,
          2. You know what you’re talking about and callously don’t care about the misery,
          3. You know what you’re talking about and are downplaying the problem because you agree with the Nazis, or
          4. You recognise that every NATO member state is also run by (neo-)Nazis (and Nazi-adjacents) and have decided that Ukraine is no worse than the US, France, Germany, Britain, Canada, Australia, etc, notwithstanding the civil war, because those other countries do the same thing as Ukrainian Nazis but outside their borders.

          I’ll leave it for you to decide which one it is.

        • duderium [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          “There’s Nazis all over the place so what are we supposed to do?” And yet for some odd reason Nazis have a habit of not existing in communist countries. It’s almost as though nazism can be eliminated entirely by getting rid of the capitalist economic system that generates them!

    • RollaD20 [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      People are calling Ukraine a nazi state because it is full of nazi apologists, is full of nazi symbolism, their national heroes are nazis, their military is full of nazis, they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on. Plenty of people here speak on the tragedy that Ukrainians are experiencing but that doesn’t mean you ignore the nazis, who at a minimum served as the tail ‘wagging the dog’ of the Ukrainian state escalating violence in the conflict with the DPR and LPR, cascading into the war.

      No one is saying Russia = communist. By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia. Talking for myself, I am mostly horrified at the complete acceptance and triumphalism that nazis have received in the west in the past couple of years. I imagine most users of this site feel the same way. I repeatedly talk with people IRL about this conflict that goes into history and context for why Russia is not insane nor evil for this war, despite it still being a tragedy, and I get a lot of people who call me a putinbot, tankie, or some equivalent thought terminating cliche.

      I think a lot of people have chosen a side because we have not been meaningfully allowed a voice to advocate for peaceful diplomatic measures. Calls for peace and diplomacy are met with accusations of russian propaganda. Nazi membership is merely russian propaganda now. So, for many, these are the sides and you have to choose one or the other and some US leftists are choosing revolutionary defeatism, sometimes it has a more vulgar pro-russia/anti-nazi stance but it’s wayy better than the vulgar pro-nazi stance lmao.

    • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”

      Ukrainian fascists control the Ukrainian government while Russian communists are just controlled opposition with no real power in Russia.

      • duderium [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Just want to say that although the KPRF is not what it once was (lol), I think it’s better than controlled opposition. The fact that the western press never mentions it and that the vast majority of Americans are unaware of its existence entirely is proof enough for me that imperialists don’t trust it and that it is actually a threat to them.

    • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it I’ve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.

      Propaganda that praising and clapping for literal Nazi jew killers is bad actually? Why is that propaganda and not just simple, blunt truth that Canada self-owned with? Russia didn’t make Canada clap for the jew killer and thank him for his service, they did that all on their own because it’s who they are.

      It’s a complete oversimplification—and this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while it’s true of liberals because it’s a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), it’s also very true of what’s happening here.

      What’s a complete oversimplification? Be explicit, what is being oversimplified? That Canada is filled with tens of thousands of Ukrainian Nazis that they purposefully accepted into their country to break the pro-labor Ukrainian diaspora that existed there pre-WW2? The decades of historical revisionism and nazi apologetics becoming mainstream that allow for this to happen? This was all consciously pushed by your leaders, who are nazi sympathetic. If anything, the oversimplification is that this makes like a little whoopsie by 1 Canadian MP instead of part of a decades long Nazi project by Canadian elites specifically, and western elites more broadly.

      NATO was staffed top to bottom with Nazis. Operation Aerodynamic began funding and spreading nazi ideology in Ukraine before the bodies were even cleaned up from Nazi genocide. The west installed fascists and Nazis into power in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine, Indonesia, West Germany and dozens of other places. This is who they are.