Hey all. I’d like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.

I want to preface this by saying this is not in a ‘ceding the issue’ way. Over the past year I’ve been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I’ve internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.

The reason it’s taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.

I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.

The consensus we’ve roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I’ll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we’ll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.

lea-bounce

  • MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    32·
    8 months ago

    Burning it specifically calls back to the Holocaust? I feel like I’ve only seen recent media do that, not historical media. Can you show me anything more on that?

    And Israel’s current form is in response to the Holocaust??? In what way???

    I’m convinced I’m misreading something, but not sure what

    Nevermind, read it like 10 times and you’re just very wrong. The holocaust as the cause of Israel or the flag explanation is itself a convenient lie by Zionists. The colonialism and flag (plans and starts) were form well before the holocaust

      • john_brown [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        37·
        8 months ago

        I’m not talking about media, I’m talking about a burning star of David. You’ve heard of Auschwitz, right? You know what they did there?

        You can’t seriously be trying to conflate burning the flag of a nation with Auschwitz, right? You’re minimizing the holocaust by doing this.

        Well yeah, what do you think changed it from a minority Jewish Palestinian state to dominantly Jewish?

        Terrorism.

        • hello_hello [undecided, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          23·
          8 months ago

          Also ahistorical because holocaust survivors had the option of going to western Europe or the US and not just Israel (also THE USSR FOR ONE! monke-rage the people who liberated them)

          In fact, I’d assume people who were cajoled into entering Israel would leave after the numerous wars and racist terrorism that occurred right after the holocaust and the nakba, but it turns out that just being a victim doesn’t excuse you from the consequences of your actions.

          • SickSemper [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            26·
            8 months ago

            I think the person equating burning the Israeli flag to Auschwitz is probably the contrarian. Jews were killed in the Holocaust, hamas-red-triangle represents the killing of Israeli soldiers who are soldiers of the “Jewish state”, should we remove that too?

          • john_brown [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            25·
            8 months ago

            So the link here is fire? Using fire means, in your mind, “this guy wants to burn all the jews”???

            Terrorism worked because of the support they had, you’re just being contrarian.

            What are you even trying to say here. Fuck me for saying terrorism, and also the terrorism they did was effective? Hello?

              • john_brown [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                23·
                8 months ago

                Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

              • hello_hello [undecided, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                20·
                8 months ago

                biden-the-thing : “If Israel didn’t exist, we would have to invent an Israel to protect our interests”

                I would burn the quran if it were the national symbol of the Muslim State of Islamriel, etched onto the land and its people like a human made cancer and I wouldn’t lose any sleep over my dad being 1% less safe in the dogshit Islamophobic US or whatever (and I wouldn’t know because all cases of islamophobia would be tied to antiIslamrielism).

                Jews aren’t the only fucking people who were victims of genocide. This isn’t an attempt at holocaust trivialization as it is an attempt to internationalize the understanding of genocide outside of “the holocaust industry” (taken from Norman Finkelstein) that westerners are spoonfed to make them support Israel.

                Cynically if Israel didn’t exist, then the holocaust would be one of those footnote genocides that only loser leftists would care about. That’s how fucking warping Israel is.

                • puppygirlpets [pup/pup's, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  20·
                  8 months ago

                  Jews aren’t the only fucking people who were victims of genocide.

                  Jews weren’t even the only victims of the holocaust. Slavs, Romani, Black people, gays, Jehovas witnesses, disabled people…

                  • hello_hello [undecided, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                    19·
                    8 months ago

                    Oh yes, the people who actually became footnotes in the genocide as their rights were stripped away after the West pretended to liberate the camps alongside the USSR.

                    I wish white people pretended to fake care about my genocide, I don’t know if it would make a material difference in my life but maybe it’s only the thoughts that count!

              • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
                18·
                8 months ago

                Yes, burning the star of David evokes the I dustrialised cremation of Jews.

                Unless it’s the pissraeli flag. You are a zionazi shit stain using the holocaust to protect pissrael. Climb into a vat of acid and stay there.

      • Keld [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        23·
        8 months ago

        You’ve heard of Auschwitz, right? You know what they did there?

        Did they burn stars of david? I mean no one giving anyone yellow stars here. They’re specifically talking about burning a flag on which a star of david appears. I don’t see how that specifically evokes the holocaust.

      • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        19·
        8 months ago

        what do you think changed it from a minority Jewish Palestinian state to dominantly Jewish

        Land theft, settler colonialism, genocide, ethnic cleansing. You are liberal zionist (fascist) filth and should be thrown in jail for life for running mass murder apologetics. Stupid fucking deranged filth lower than pig shit. Enemy of the working class, a stain on human history.

      • MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        17·
        8 months ago

        Did they burn stars of david in Auschwitz? Or is this referring to the forced wearing of the star of David as recognition at the camp? Or that they were forced to wear it to their deaths? Please believe me when I say I’m genuinely trying to learn this part. I did not ever associate burning a SoD as a reference to the Holocaust, except when context showed it to be so, but might need to change that. That, again, when done outside the context of the Israeli flag, because that’s different as most agree here.

          • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            19·
            8 months ago

            but it makes burning a star of David rather than other means of destruction a direct reference to the ovens

            Unless the “star of David” is on the pissraeli flag, then it’s a direct reference to how the state of pissrael and it’s genocidal supporters should be destroyed.

            bulldozer pushing it away

            Like the bulldozers pissrael uses to crush people and destroy their homes? You are a fucking abomination.

          • trinicorn [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            16·
            8 months ago

            I’d maybe be onboard with this if it weren’t for the long history of flag-burning as protest. Clearly it’s not an allusion to the holocaust, its flag burning in disapproval of the political entity the flag represents, same as any other flag burning. it’s not burning solely the star, nor is it burning anyone in effigy, it’s specifically and only the flag.