Many people do give some of their money or belongings to those less fortunate already. It’s called charity. Socialists want to create a world where charity isn’t necessary.
I think of it where charity is not optional. Seriously though there would be charities but for more niched things. Not to make sure vets (who get more healthcare than most of the country) get healthcare or children get healthcare. I swear the charity commercials from when I was a kid about children in africa are now about children in the us.
vets (who get more healthcare than most of the country)
You may be overestimating the quality of VA hospitals.
ETA: Just to clarify, I’m not trying to negate their point. I’m just mentioning that veteran healthcare isn’t actually all that great. There’s a good reason so many vets end up crazy and homeless in the US.
There were times in my life that I would not go to the hospital unless I was literally dying for fear of the costs. A ton of people in the US are like that, and imagine how many ignore weird pains or symptoms that then progress into serious conditions that could’ve been treated if they’d have gotten checked out earlier.
This is one of the major contributing factors to the reduced cost for socialized healthcare: it is a lot less expensive to catch things early than to treat them later.
Just to clarify I do agree with the point you were making. I was just commenting on the fact that veteran healthcare in the US isn’t actually that great, and not as easily accessible as some think it is.
oh I get it but honestly I have seen it in action and for a veteran living in a major area it seems light years above typical. Most things I hear come down to long term care facilities, which are bad for ones the poor end up in if not worse, and people living in the stix. Which again the poor there just are getting nothing. I was in no way trying to say what they get is great just that it is additional to what the non veteran gets. I see a lot of veteran and first responder thing (another profession with generally better benefits than average) and talking about wounds but I tell you its better to be shot as a first responder or veteran than as a teacher although even they tend to at least have benefits. Its real bad if you make your money in the gig economy.
Veterans generally rate their VA provided healthcare higher than civilians rate their civilian healthcare in the US. The whole myth that the VA is significantly worse than the regular system is just that; a myth. Outcomes and patient satisfaction trend higher in VA hospitals.
My take from what I’ve been told is it’s great as long as you can stay healthy enough to make it through the bureaucratic crap. With VA hospitals, you get to take all the fun and games of a regular hospital admin and throw in a bunch of government red tape.
Ah, the classic “I’m a narcissist so I can only see that other people want things only for themselves” view. Most who are socialists want it so everyone can have their basic needs met, not because they themselves want free things. It’s about caring for others, which you clearly are unable to comprehend.
What? No, I meant like when people said they didn’t want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them.
They don’t want that. They just understand that the capitalists will literally kill them and they have to be prepared for that. This is not speculation, it’s historically accurate
No, socialism doesn’t work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart.
Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable.
What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized
There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart.
Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like “we want paid sick time”, “we don’t want to work more than 8 hours a day”, and “we want to be paid in real money not company scrip” are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it’s not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It’s held in place by force.
Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable.
Overthrowing the current order at gunpoint is completely ethically justified, capitalism is fundamentally and irredeemably evil and anyone who doesn’t see that is too fucking stupid to safely walk and chew at the same time
Cooperatives aren’t exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state.
I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we’re in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they’re legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses.
I’m not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA’s rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that’s how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0
Many people do give some of their money or belongings to those less fortunate already. It’s called charity. Socialists want to create a world where charity isn’t necessary.
I think of it where charity is not optional. Seriously though there would be charities but for more niched things. Not to make sure vets (who get more healthcare than most of the country) get healthcare or children get healthcare. I swear the charity commercials from when I was a kid about children in africa are now about children in the us.
You may be overestimating the quality of VA hospitals.
ETA: Just to clarify, I’m not trying to negate their point. I’m just mentioning that veteran healthcare isn’t actually all that great. There’s a good reason so many vets end up crazy and homeless in the US.
Literally any healthcare>>>No healthcare
There were times in my life that I would not go to the hospital unless I was literally dying for fear of the costs. A ton of people in the US are like that, and imagine how many ignore weird pains or symptoms that then progress into serious conditions that could’ve been treated if they’d have gotten checked out earlier.
This is one of the major contributing factors to the reduced cost for socialized healthcare: it is a lot less expensive to catch things early than to treat them later.
Ohhh, veterans.
I thought you had specific healthcare for veterinarians and I thought that was very niche
They would go to the VVA: Veterans Veterinarians Association
Not to be confused with the Veterinarian Veterans Association
Okay I gotta good giggle out of that. I imagined, okay now I’m going to use this animal painkiller and suture myself up!
you may be underestimating nothing.
Just to clarify I do agree with the point you were making. I was just commenting on the fact that veteran healthcare in the US isn’t actually that great, and not as easily accessible as some think it is.
oh I get it but honestly I have seen it in action and for a veteran living in a major area it seems light years above typical. Most things I hear come down to long term care facilities, which are bad for ones the poor end up in if not worse, and people living in the stix. Which again the poor there just are getting nothing. I was in no way trying to say what they get is great just that it is additional to what the non veteran gets. I see a lot of veteran and first responder thing (another profession with generally better benefits than average) and talking about wounds but I tell you its better to be shot as a first responder or veteran than as a teacher although even they tend to at least have benefits. Its real bad if you make your money in the gig economy.
Veterans generally rate their VA provided healthcare higher than civilians rate their civilian healthcare in the US. The whole myth that the VA is significantly worse than the regular system is just that; a myth. Outcomes and patient satisfaction trend higher in VA hospitals.
My take from what I’ve been told is it’s great as long as you can stay healthy enough to make it through the bureaucratic crap. With VA hospitals, you get to take all the fun and games of a regular hospital admin and throw in a bunch of government red tape.
You want a lot of things and have no plan to get there useless populist
Good to see the idiots on twitter still arguing like children
Say the Zionist terrorist
Ah, the classic “I’m a narcissist so I can only see that other people want things only for themselves” view. Most who are socialists want it so everyone can have their basic needs met, not because they themselves want free things. It’s about caring for others, which you clearly are unable to comprehend.
Maybe fuck off back there with your childish “arguments”?
“It’s only real democracy when I like the outcome, otherwise its populism” - false democracy advocates
They also want to do that at gunpoint.
Minor detail you forgot to mention.
Capitalism is enforced at gunpoint. Can we condemn that, too?
You mean like when you can’t loot other people’s shit?
What? No, I meant like when people said they didn’t want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them.
I mean, that certainly wasn’t nice, but unions are an accepted part of “capitalism” now.
Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as “nice” is underselling it.
Also, “accepted” is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common.
Yeah, because no war has ever been fought to bring capitalism anywhere. Ever. Not even one little time.
They don’t want that. They just understand that the capitalists will literally kill them and they have to be prepared for that. This is not speculation, it’s historically accurate
No, socialism doesn’t work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart.
Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable.
What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized
Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like “we want paid sick time”, “we don’t want to work more than 8 hours a day”, and “we want to be paid in real money not company scrip” are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it’s not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It’s held in place by force.
Why is it their stuff?
Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals?
Strawman alert.
Coward alert.
Overthrowing the current order at gunpoint is completely ethically justified, capitalism is fundamentally and irredeemably evil and anyone who doesn’t see that is too fucking stupid to safely walk and chew at the same time
Here is my gun, its written down you moron.
Democratic socialists do not want to impose socialism on people through violent force.
They also dont want socialism. They want reform just like centrists.
Not one DSA candidate has called for the means of production to be in the hands of the workers.
Not one has said we should get rid of capitalists.
Not one has said we should get rid of for profit banks and insurance.
They do talk about single payer healthcare but that is just a social program and not socialism.
Its all reform unless we(the workers)seize the means of production and I havent heard one peep about that from the DSA.
So, no, the DSA aren’t socialists at all, they are at best reformists.
Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops.
Cooperatives aren’t exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state.
So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now.
I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we’re in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they’re legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses.
I’m not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA’s rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that’s how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0
Oh, I see the issue. You’re one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism.
“Authoritarianism” is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it.
One of those people who is tired of losing and isn’t completely historically and politically illiterate
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
Read other replies to my comment to find out. Mind the vote score, too. The vicious savages aren’t hiding.
Crying about “viscious savages” because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch.
I couldn’t care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder.
When capitalists do it, it’s somehow not murder.