If we let manipulation be so broad as to be “influence a choice”, then communication itself is manipulation.
For example, a classic, stereotypical proposal with a dinner and a date beforehand is also just manipulating your significant other into viewing you more favorably temporarily to make it more likely they’ll say yes. A neutral proposal would be treated as an everyday affair, occurring before they’ve really interacted with you that day, something that goes against the whole social construct of proposing at all.
Same goes for a job interview, why are you practicing and dressing better? If any of it is not part of how you intend to work at that place, its manipulation. Even body language can be manipulation.
While all of that is actually a completely valid definition of manipulation, that doesn’t mean the proposal is bad, and the difference is intent. Benign manipulation, like a proposal, isn’t considered “being manipulative”, because being manipulative intends to trick or deceive in some way. If we edit the background details of this scene, like we give him a reason he’d like her over there so that he could benefit at her expense, then he’s being manipulative, but he isn’t doing so here. Even then, some kind of deception matters. If a corpo found a way to get a teammate a promotion somewhere else, and did so to benefit themselves, its not manipulation if they go “Hey, I got you the Klingon account, and while you’re gone, I’m gonna manage your work here and get a promotion”, that’s just being upfront about it.
Yes. Agree completely.
Manipulating someone isn’t always bad, or even something they wouldn’t want done to them.
While being manipulative is a trick, it isn’t necessarily dishonest. Being dishonest with a manipulation is immoral. That’s when people don’t like being manipulated. What they really don’t like is being mislead or outright lied to.
If we let manipulation be so broad as to be “influence a choice”, then communication itself is manipulation.
For example, a classic, stereotypical proposal with a dinner and a date beforehand is also just manipulating your significant other into viewing you more favorably temporarily to make it more likely they’ll say yes. A neutral proposal would be treated as an everyday affair, occurring before they’ve really interacted with you that day, something that goes against the whole social construct of proposing at all.
Same goes for a job interview, why are you practicing and dressing better? If any of it is not part of how you intend to work at that place, its manipulation. Even body language can be manipulation.
While all of that is actually a completely valid definition of manipulation, that doesn’t mean the proposal is bad, and the difference is intent. Benign manipulation, like a proposal, isn’t considered “being manipulative”, because being manipulative intends to trick or deceive in some way. If we edit the background details of this scene, like we give him a reason he’d like her over there so that he could benefit at her expense, then he’s being manipulative, but he isn’t doing so here. Even then, some kind of deception matters. If a corpo found a way to get a teammate a promotion somewhere else, and did so to benefit themselves, its not manipulation if they go “Hey, I got you the Klingon account, and while you’re gone, I’m gonna manage your work here and get a promotion”, that’s just being upfront about it.
Yes. Agree completely.
Manipulating someone isn’t always bad, or even something they wouldn’t want done to them.
While being manipulative is a trick, it isn’t necessarily dishonest. Being dishonest with a manipulation is immoral. That’s when people don’t like being manipulated. What they really don’t like is being mislead or outright lied to.
No, manipulation is inherently dishonest. That’s how you know it’s manipulation and not just honest discourse seen in the meme.
First definition in the American heritage dictionary states this pretty plainly, “Shrewd or devious management, especially for one’s own advantage.”
That definition doesn’t require anything dishonest.
“Shrewd OR devious”
Using you’re definition, how is what he did not “Shrewd management for his own advantage”?