Mod reminder: WomensStuff 100% supports trans+ people. If you say something transphobic you WILL be banned.
Instance admin stepping in here.
There are places and times in this community where discussing the nuances of sex and gender as it relates to the experiences of gender diverse folk is appropriate, but a support and inclusion thread for trans folk is not it. If your response to this post was to argue, debate, or push back against a post that is aiming for trans inclusion, I’ve likely removed it.
If you want to have those discussions, you do it in a way that talks about your own experiences and/or asks other people about their experiences. You don’t do it in a way that tells other people their own experiences or denies/argues with them about those experiences. You also do it in a thread specifically focused on talking about those issues, so people who don’t have the spoons for it can skip it.
This thread is meant to be something that boosts and supports trans and gender diverse folk. If your post wasn’t doing that, even if it was “I support trans people, but…” it’s gone.
Except they have dicks
Mmhmm. Sometimes they’re really big, too. 🥰
Yeah so some women have dicks, can we get over it already?
In that case, they are not women.
You’re thinking of trans men now. But you’re getting there. I believer in you.
We tend to have just one dick actually.
mom said it’s my turn with the dick >:(
And you don’t have a brain.
That other woman who responded, apologized to you for existing. I can’t let that stand. It’s just not right.
Go fuck yourself.
Gooooooooooooooo
And
Geeeeeeet Fucked
By yourself
On yourself
With yourself
AloneOkay…? What’s your point exactly?
SRS exists. Some girls (including myself) aim for it to alleviate the crushing feeling of dread that is living with the wrong genitals. Not everyone of course and that’s perfectly valid!
Sorry for lashing out at you, but…this really reads like a troll comment on a post trying to spread positivity for trans people.
Queen, don’t apologize🫂
Oh, thank you ❤️🫂
I checked that person’s comment history. It’s a pure bot/troll account. I take back my apology, that person deserved it.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but as a trans woman, I don’t actually mind it being said that I was a man. I identified as a man at the time, and sometimes I even believed it, and I don’t think future developments need necessarily invalidate that. I am, however, always respectful of other people’s views on temporal gender mechanics.
Everyone’s experience is different; My perspective is I was never a man. I don’t know what it’s like to be a man. I don’t know what it’s like to be a boy.
I know what it’s like to be a girl who was told she had no choice but to be a boy.
Your experiences and the perspectives you see them through are yours to define. It’s when people try and take that away from you that it becomes an issue.
I feel like the most important thing is that you are the only one allowed to define your gender.
I feel kind of similar. I feel like I was born as a man, grew up like one, then decided that I’d rather be a woman, and I created the me that exists today from scratch. (And a rather large amount of oestrogen).
But that’s just me, that’s just how I feel about myself. Every trans person has their own way of thinking about their gender. The most important thing is to respect that.
💯
Hard nope on the biological women part. Simple X-ray proves that falsehood
I’ve had a lot of biological sex with your father actually and he disagrees.
That was fucking legendary
“biological” is poorly defined. As a blanket statement it’s just wrong bc a trans woman that isn’t on hrt and hasn’t had any surgery is still a trans woman, but most of the biological aspects of sex are rooted in hormones, so in many ways a trans person on hrt is closer to their gender biologically than their sex assigned at birth.
It’s still context dependent which is relevant medically, but the term “biological man/woman” is just kinda useless in the first place bc of this tbh
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define biological woman (ur banned lol so ull just have to read what educated people reply here ig)
Should be able to give birth really
Guess what, stupid? There are cis women who can’t give birth. And they’re still cis women, if you can even comprehend that with your narrow little mind.
I’m wasting my time arguing with a bot…your comment history is a dead giveaway.
That’s not the same. Those cis women only have an error in the functioning.
Okay…? So what’s your point exactly?
A biological woman must at least have the theoretical ability to give birth.
You haven’t proved you have the theoretical ability to think. By your logic that means you’re not a real person.
“Theoretical ability to give birth”. You know…I don’t even think you know what you’re talking about yourself 😂
So, you’re saying trans women aren’t women. Do I understand that correctly?
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From what I’m gathering from other comments it mostly seems to be a term that intentionally agitates people. People hear it and think chromosomes. Other people say it and mean hormones. Apparently some view “Biologically women” as a hate term.
The term doesn’t accomplish anything. Transphobes will disagree on a weaker stance anyways so you don’t need to elevate it. Allies will agree with a better articulated version (i.e. 'transmen on HRT have hormones that match a mans hormones".) But if an ally interprets the statement to claim “There is no biological difference between a man and a women” and disagrees based on chromosomes, then they will be banned from communities for transphobia.
Personally I’m still firmly on team gender != sex, thus claiming someone is or isn’t “Biologically [Gender]” feels like a misuse of the word biology in the same way I would protest the use of “biologically married”. It doesn’t make sense.
👍
a good explanation
Hey if you’re born a transwoman, what’s the last half of that last word?
What’s the first half?
You saying trans women arent women? Because that’s the only reason you’d care in this context.
It’s actually two words, an adjective and a noun. Just don’t smoosh them together.
Ooooh, damn, this one made people maaaaaaaaaaad.
How’s this for some extra spice?
Trans men are men. Non-binary people are humans. Transphobes are scared of something they’ll never see.
Virtually every pro trans post here gets somebody being deliberately nasty. I basically have to read through all the comments with my finger poised over the ban button.
keep up the good work of getting rid of the trolls
Thanks mate! Luckily blahaj are amazing at banning so I have a lot of help
Kick their arses
Damn right
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Is this a medical chart? Is it telling doctors how to do their job? Your “problem with this post” is something you made up completely to have a thin excuse to point out that trans women “are other”.
Weird that you felt the need to find some way some how to other trans women. Wait, not weird. Telling.
“Six silly lines of affirmation”. It’s honestly impressive how much you bothered to larp scientist just to sneak in your bullshit.
Just my take. I’m not a doctor or anything.
Your take is trash. Go back to school.
doctors should be actually pragmatic and give regard to the relevant specifics rather than our stupid abstractions that miss important edge cases
doing otherwise is malpractice because it means they do a worse job than they easily could JUST BY NOT APPLYING THESE PRESUMPTIONS
for example
disease more dangerous if theres a uterus for it to infect? then ask “do you have a uterus” not “are you a woman”its easy
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I would also leave out the biology part of the list. Because that is just going to cause problems.
You can be whatever you want to be and you should be respected as such. But what hardware are you operating on is kinda important in a medical sense.There is a reason why a doctor first question is: Are you pregnant? Is there a chance of pregnancy? This is an undeniable fact - they ask this question even if you went through a total removal of your insides. Biological parts do need different upkeep.
Okay but we’re not at the doctor, and the doctor would be held to patient confidentiality, so it’s nobody else’s fucking business regardless.
Yep, totally agree.
Given how vastly women have been underrepresented in medical literature, studies, drug trials and every other facet, i rather think they can stick it at this point. We’re all treated like cis males beyond an intial pregnancy test during triage. While various body parts do come into play as diagnoses progress, from the outset that info won’t be used save for lazy blaming and bigotry
We definitely need more women-focused studies! I get the impression that scientific journals are publishing more of them lately.
I don’t necessarily have problems with the veracity of the claims you’re making, but I do have some questions: Are you a doctor with a trans patient? Are you a medical researcher with trans biology as a topic of interest? Are you on a board of peer reviewers that needs to determine the terminology for your journal’s style guide?
If not, why do you think this is important? What denotative need does a layperson have to refer to a trans woman a biological male, or to socially endorse doing so in clearly nonscientific contexts such as this?
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I am just another stranger on internet, nothing more
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I respectfully disagree and personally don’t think it’s useful to reference biological sex in reference to trans folks in lower-stakes situations if the speaker isn’t a doctor or scientist.
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That’s not what I said. People are going to have different opinions about this because it’s a complex issue. I’m not trying to gatekeep or silence anyone, and I’m asking that you not assume the worst of me simply because we disagree.
I think I’m going to step away from c/womensstuff. I left this topic feeling hurt and misunderstood in a community that I’ve previously always trusted.
I apologize, I didn’t realize I was speaking in womensstuff. I shouldn’t even be here. I hope you are able to find your trust in this community again in the future; there are many good people here. Goodbye, and I hope to see you around elsewhere.
Whoa. No reason to back away, I certainly did not wish for you to feel you need to silence yourself and for sure I do not assume the worst of anyone until I get to know them.
If my comment came across as an attack, that is not how I meant it.
I posit that everyone has a viewpoint that should be allowed to be expressed.
We can read/listen to what someone has to say then decide - yea or nay - that it’s something we agree or disagree on.
As a woman who’s been told to be silent about topics that have impacted my life (medical issues) because I haven’t been “educated” in the subject, (as if my own horrorshow medical experience wasn’t an education enough? Yaaah, fuck that!) I am duty-bound to step in and say “Hold up a second there…”
…and I did.
Stick around, you’re alright, and all I ask is that you be open to being more open.
This is an explicitly trans inclusive support thread. It’s meant as a strong, visible sign that trans women are welcome and included and get to talk about their own experiences in this space.
But if you look at the replies, over half of them are people arguing, debating and pushing back against that, all saying in one way or another that no, trans people don’t get to define their own experiences on their own terms.
As someone who has been sidelined and “educated” by people trying to tell you they know your experiences better than you do, I think you should stop and consider why you chose this thread of all places to push back against trans folk…
all I ask is that you be open to being more open.
I’m sorry, but I don’t see how I’m being closed-minded. All I did was express my opinion and got dogpiled, then was told I’m silencing others with my opinion. That doesn’t feel good. I’m sorry that disclosing my being personally uncomfortable with being continually reminded of my biological sex is a censoring act; again I know this is a complicated issue with multiple perspectives. Respectfully, I’m doing what I feel I need to do by stepping away. Feel free to reply if you’d like, but I need to be done now.
I’m getting strong terf vibes. She didn’t say say anything that was offensive and wasn’t trying to censor you.
I think you need to deal with your own issues. Your medical issues don’t give you the right to speak about another vulnerable group’s health.
Idc that my current gf was born a man. In the months that I’ve known her, she has shown me more affection, loyalty, and desire than any other woman I’ve ever known. She gets me at a level most women would have made a video about asking if I was right for her, she proves that I deserve better and that I want to work myself over to be the person she thinks I am, you know, the love your grandparents had? She gives me that. And this post validated both our struggles to get where we are without diminishing anybody else in the process. Same love.
Are you a gay/bi man though?
i sure hope they’re not a man, because if so they shouldn’t be commenting in this community!
Ignore this person please, girlie. Save your sanity. They’re just a troll trying to get attention by spewing their bigotry. It’s a waste of time talking to them.
oh i know, but i find great joy in responding with feigned ignorance
Being born a woman sounds inconvenient. I was born a baby, which I highly recommend.
Seems a lot more people have that Benjamin Button disease than I would have expected.
Latching on to this post to say that “biological sex” and “biological man” are and have been right wing dogwhistles carefully crafted for adoption by uninformed moderates
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“Biological sex” provides no useful information about a trans person’s biological traits, ESPECIALLY when applied to those of us who are deep into our transition. After a certain point, our physical biology is overall significantly closer to those of cis women than cis men, and any necessary nuance (eg: periods) is a private medical discussion that can be handled professionally.
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“Biological man” is almost exclusively used by bad actors who want to imply that trans women have the same violent sexual tendencies as cis men. These are often the same people who rush to defend cis men who actually commit violent sexual acts.
I will die on this hill.
The day the term trans-identified males (TIMs) went into the vernacular is the day I stopped being comfortable with non-doctors referring to trans women as biological males. Before that, I guess I didn’t perceive it as being that big of a deal.
I completely agree that 99% of the time, the term biological male or biological man is now used as a dogwhistle to get regular folks comfortable with thinking of and referring to trans women as men and males. It’s why conservatives keep pushing the sports debate.
and any necessary nuance (eg: periods) is a private medical discussion that can be handled professionally.
As a medical professional am I allowed to say “biological sex”? Or how should we talk about the factual persisting differences which often are medical relevant?
For cis men and women, nothing changes. But when dealing with a trans patient you need nuance. Are we talking reproductive system, endocrinology, fat distribution, psychology, etc. The real answer here would be to have a more nuanced intake form or proper discussion with the patient since reducing our biology to what we were assigned at birth can mask all sorts of issues. ESPECIALLY for those of us who have been transitioning for a lifetime.
To give a personal example, I know for a fact that my blood levels are closest to those of a cis woman. I know this because my old endo used to send my bloodwork in with a M marker against my wishes. Unsurprisingly, my labs came back with more red flags than a UN meeting. The moment I got a better endo to send it in with F, the red flags went away.
As yet another example, it’s commonly known that cis men and cis women experience heart attacks differently, but there’s been virtually no research on how trans people experience it. Hormones affect virtually every part of our body, so who’s to say heart attacks present as our sex at birth? If an EMT were to see M on a form, they might overlook the female symptoms
My doctor uses the term “natal sex” in general or “trans woman” to refer to a woman assigned male at birth, which I appreciate. People will have different opinions, but I think you as a medical professional have more leeway in this domain than the general public since you need to be able to treat us without risk of miscommunication and to communicate clearly in your records.
I’d go with no. It’s too tied up with terf rhetoric that many would be uncomfortable at the least, and honestly inaccurate.
I’m curious which things you’re thinking of as persisting differences that you feel the need to try referring to our AGAB as biological.
Please note my hand is hovering over two buttons- one makes sea lion noises and the other is asking if you’re following the rules of the community.
Please note my hand is hovering over two buttons- one makes sea lion noises and the other is asking if you’re following the rules of the community.
Unrelated to the discussion at hand directly, but I have a strong urge to post a mocking redditor wojak right now
an interesting thing that people dont talk about much is all the feminine neurological traits that we show before we even know we’re trans. for example neurodivergent trans women will often have a presentation/profile more typical of cis women. i have a pretty stereotypical feminine neurodivergence myself, being mostly inattentive type and developing masking behaviors early, but being treated as and told i was a boy meant that was directed towards fitting in with other boys.
Yeap anytime someone says “biological something” it triggers me
I just call people who say “biological gender” biological arseholes.
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No, they are not the same. What does biology mean? It means how your body functions. How does it know how to develop? Hormones. If you have the hormones that make your biology function as male/female then you are male/female. It has nothing to do with birth. It has a little to do with chromosomes, in so far as your chromosomes tell your body what hormones to produce, but when we take control of that process then it isn’t related anymore.
“Biological sex” is almost always attached to the idea of “basic biology.” Any time “basic [whatever]” is used, you should question it. What someone learns in high school is not the end of knowledge. I don’t care about someone’s opinion on differential equations if they have only learned basic math, as an example. Biology is complex, and chromosomes are an incredibly basic point to start at. It doesn’t even touch on intersex people. So no, the “basic biology” level of knowledge is fundamentally flawed, and “biological sex”, if you want to use the term reasonably, is not as basic as chromosomes, or what genitals you possessed when you were born, or whatever else.
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You’re saying this like it’s some sort of trick. It isn’t. I’m not defending the use of “biological gender”. I’m against it. I don’t call anyone biological women/men, so it doesn’t matter if they’re on HRT. The term is not useful. Even among men and women, levels of estrogen and testosterone very. It also changes as you age. Those men who have low testosterone aren’t not men because of it. Biology is far more complex than that, so the term is useless.
If they’re speaking with their doctor, their assigned gender at birth is important, but so are their hormones, and also what’s happening with their body regardless of that. To everyone else, it literally does not matter. Whatever they call themselves is all that you should care about.
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You’re in an area where a binary gender model just breaks down. Whilst convenient for most people in most situations, this is like trying to use Newton’s laws of motion to understand the event horizon of a black hole. You need a different model of the world.
The model I use is this: humans have many independent systems/traits within their brains and bodies, several of which are typically found in a bi-modal distribution of states which we label “male” and “female”. In trans, non-binary, and intersex people the bi-modality of that distribution starts to break down. Some systems/traits are aligned with the “male” mode, others with the “female” mode. Not all are easy or even possible to change: some are baked into how the brain works.
In some of those people (trans men, trans women) it just happens that several less-visible systems/traits we cannot (or should not) change are aligned in the opposite direction to a bunch of more-visible systems/traits we can change, and that their lives become much more tolerable if they are allowed to make some changes. This usually happens via some combination of hormones & surgery, and really needs to depend on the individual because the systems/traits can be misaligned in a variety of ways and some of the treatments affect several systems in a way that cannot be quantified before treatment.
If the ultimate goal of a trans man / trans woman would be to transition to better fit the classical male/female mode they would prefer, then they probably want to be labelled and treated as their preferred gender with no additional qualifications at all, but some still want their journey to be recognised so sometimes you need to ask anyway.
The model I use is this: humans have many independent systems/traits within their brains and bodies
That largely falls in with gender constructivism & gender permittivity which are philosophies that make sense to me. My personal perspective is that people should aspire to exclude anything related to biology (chromosome & hormones included) because choosing to not do that bars many trans & cis people from ever “fully becoming” their chosen gender. If being a [Gender] means having some 100 traits, and some of those traits are defined by biology, then they might only be 95% [Gender]. And then it invites discussion of being a ‘full man’ and similar terms that lead to transphobic and other toxic ideologies.
That said, I say
aspire, because I think it’s hard for most people to fully 100% separate them. Like the old ‘everyone is a little bit racist, sometimes’ joke/bit.I would say that cis people also have most but often not all traits aligned with their preferred mode there, resolving that from the other side. So they’d have to say that a woman with a little facial hair is not a woman, or that a man who prefers to avoid violence is not a man. Then they’d need to claim that maybe 60+% of all people are intersex, and “real” men/women are minorities.
so right wing people make up a term to describe something hatefully, but in a way that doesnt sound hateful if you dont know where it comes from. they get a lot of people to start using it without knowing its roots of hate. in time the term catches on with people who dont know better. later people learn what it means and since theyve been hearing it and using it and believing it they may just swallow the hate as a matter of course once they learn of it. they keep hearing it being used, so they feel like everyone is agreeing with them. thus hate is spread and reinforced by a seemingly innocuous word or phrase. words have meaning and context beyond their literal dictionary definition. so to answer your question, its hateful rhetoric because it comes from hateful people and is intended to carry a hateful message. well meaning ignorance is a tool of hate.
That word is used by either those:
- ignorant about the meaning
- intentionally using it as a dog whistle
So I usually roll my eyes when I hear that word
“Cis” gets the point across without the unnecessary baggage.
These are often the same people who rush to defend cis men who actually commit violent sexual acts.
Holy shit, you’re right.
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As you said language changes.
Firstly, the right fabricated the recent-ish trans outrage as a wedge issue to divide Dems and radicalize Repubs. That’s the only reason there’s been so much talk about it recently. We’re being thrown into the spotlight and forced to defend ourselves
Secondly, despite a steep uphill battle, we’ve made scientific progress that helps us better understand the nuance in sex and gender topics
Though those terms may not have had the same connotations in the past (but people still called us slurs), we have existed since antiquity. To put it into perspective, I came out in 2014 and my therapist at the time had come out some 20 years before me.
Firstly, the right fabricated the recent-ish trans outrage as a wedge issue to divide Dems and radicalize Repubs. That’s the only reason there’s been so much talk about it recently. We’re being thrown into the spotlight and forced to defend ourselves
I don’t think its recent. My husband had an uncle that transitioned in the mid-90’s and auntie would visit from her new digs in Florida with plenty of horror stories about how she was discriminated against.
It’s always been there, it’s that Trump is using the outrage to gin up support from the low-wattage element of the electorate. This is an end-game for political control using an issue that has been around at the general public level for decades but was mostly a social non issue as it hadn’t been taken up as a political cudgel like it is now.
Oh we’ve been getting called slurs for all of eternity, but if you track the number of anti-trans bills per year you will see a massive spike within the last 5-10 years
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Hey mate just deleting your comment cos od politics. We don’t allow government politics in here so we’ve got some escapism.
Ah, okay… no problem. My bad.
I’ll join you! We can haunt it together afterwards
Ayup. When the biology is controlled by hormones, what hrt mandates becomes the biology.
Yes even if you stop (i have a friend who stopped taking her E but because we’re both menopausal age it did jack and shit but line her up to where she’s supposed to be anyway)
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The fact it’s 2026 and people still care to argue is wild.
Yep! Why does it matter to anyone how someone defines their gender?
It’s about putting people in easily identifiable boxes and nothing else.
Now if they would stop calling women females.
…
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Trans women are females
Trans-inclusive trolling 🤣
Ooh ya bugger
Thank you 🥰🥰
Love this and thank you for posting this!
It’s a big club, and we’re thankful ya’ll are in it!
